After the Post Office scandal, do you feel safe with a DWP "police force"?

Maybe AI will make the system better. This thread has been negative from the start and we have no evidence that AI will cause all these problems.
As I mentioned earlier a bot fixed my broadband within a few minutes of me reporting the fault. It took hours for a human to do it beforeAI.

That doesn’t mean they can’t use AI to assist in their investigations where the benefit is means-tested.

MissAdventure

AGAA4

People need to realise that benefit fraud impacts on all of us and particularly those on benefits. Scrutiny wouldn't need to happen if people, as most are, were honest.
I would like to know how to discover who is abusing the system without checking.
The police can't take on benefit fraud so who will stop the fraudsters from from getting away with money they aren't entitled to?

Thats fair comment, as long as people are aware and agree that if they treat family on their birthdays or christmas, or just because, the recipient should be declaring it to the dwp if they are on benefits.

And I have seen many, many, posts in here about who treats their adult children, and buy their shopping, etc etc.
Like a badge of honour.

Are you saying that you should have to declare your Christmas Presents MissAdventure? Why? Does everyone declare them on their tax return?

Will the AI be programmed to make logical assessments of where the money comes from.
Eg - same surname, always pays in on a particular date - must be a family member sending birthday money?
I hope so.

It clearly states on the pip form that it goes to AN ASSESSOR, who makes the decision.

If people are receiving a few amounts into their accounts during the year this will be discounted. They will only take issue if the claimant is getting regular amounts that they have not disclosed.

I would suggest a system that doesn't create so many errors first of all AGAA4. There is a higher percentage of errors, by DWP and claimants, than fraud. The whole thing is far too complex.

AGAA4

People need to realise that benefit fraud impacts on all of us and particularly those on benefits. Scrutiny wouldn't need to happen if people, as most are, were honest.
I would like to know how to discover who is abusing the system without checking.
The police can't take on benefit fraud so who will stop the fraudsters from from getting away with money they aren't entitled to?

Thats fair comment, as long as people are aware and agree that if they treat family on their birthdays or christmas, or just because, the recipient should be declaring it to the dwp if they are on benefits.

And I have seen many, many, posts in here about who treats their adult children, and buy their shopping, etc etc.
Like a badge of honour.

On the contrary, DAR, the use of AI to find potential fraud frees up a great deal of civil servants’ time. The evidence produced by AI can then be reviewed and evaluated by a civil servant. AI is going to be very widely used in all areas of our lives. You can’t fight the inevitable march of progress - and yes, it is progress.

People need to realise that benefit fraud impacts on all of us and particularly those on benefits. Scrutiny wouldn't need to happen if people, as most are, were honest.
I would like to know how to discover who is abusing the system without checking.
The police can't take on benefit fraud so who will stop the fraudsters from from getting away with money they aren't entitled to?

So sorry to hear of your experience JaneJudge, I did wonder if you would post on this thread as most of us aware of your DD's situation (not in detail, of course).

This proposal is frightening, but will likely go through due to the demonisation of benefit claimants or 'cheats' as the tabloid press like to call them. Add into the mix the fictional, urban myths about people living in Majorca, renting out properties and still, claiming benefits, those of the 'if you have nothing to hide, nothing to worry about' school with their heads in the sand, and we have the perfect storm. I do not approve of cheating the benefit system, but neither do I approve of large corporations 'cheating' the exchequer by so called legitimate means of offshore taxation. Please, GSM, no lectures about the difference between tax avoidance. Most on here understand the concerns raised, and to have yet another area of public life self policing, as the Post Office did, should raise serious concerns in us all.

petra, what you have posted is of no evidential value.

MissAdventure

Thats why involving AI is a terrible idea, as is giving the dwp extra powers.

AI isn't the start of the problems; it's that the law is a terrible undemocratic law. It is also going to put pressure on an already creaking gate that is the DWP.

It's the government I blame. They are diabolical at planning. They come up with an idea but not plan. I would also blame those at the top of the DWP. They earn a great deal of money and should be the ones to speak truth to power.

I really don't envy those getting on with the day to day stuff and it does feel like an accident waiting to happen.

AGAA4

You can't condemn the whole DWP on one case.

I hope you’re able to read this.

AI is everywhere now. I had a text from my internet bot last week who fixed my broadband.

Thats why involving AI is a terrible idea, as is giving the dwp extra powers.

It's true that the DWP are "under the cosh" from the government who want everyone in work.
There is a highly trained team of experienced people who assess claims and who will defy government if necessary and come down on the side of the claimant.
DWP is a huge organisation and like many of these large organisations will make mistakes.
If you want to attribute blame then it should be the government who take it as they really don't want anybody on benefits.
Like many other areas this government has failed in it's failing in this.

JaneJudge

We also attended the job centre several times whose primary focus seems to be to get people onto universal credit. She had to visit the job centre 3 times to get universal credit and had to have a fit for work assessment. I had to take unpaid leave from my full time job and a support worker had to attend. We had to queue up outside for a 9am appointment with loads of other people, many of whom stand across the road etc. It is humiliating. Some people are clearly ill. My dd is clearly very disabled. I am only adding this because this is not something I have experience of normally

I am so sorry to hear this JaneJudge. I think many claimants feel very isolated and are not going to chat about their position. So, like the sub-postmasters, it's not generally known how widespread it is. Except, I assume, by those in charge, although even that doesn't seem to be a given.

AGAA4

A doctor's assessment is only part of the evidence. They only have a short time to assess someone as they are very busy people.
The claimant themselves give evidence and are seen regularly by DWP staff.
It's up to the examiner of all the evidence to decide whether benefit is given or continued.

What sort of experience and training/qualifications does the "examiner of all the evidence" have AGAA4?

If you have a rules based system then surely everyone must be able to show how the rules have been followed and that the applicant has been put in a position to present their evidence, including proper medical reports.

In the post office case they have homed in on the fact that while asking the sub-postmasters to prove they hadn't stolen any money, they denied access to that evidence. If a doctor is not given enough time the the PIP applicant is denied the opportunity to do that.

It also looks as if some of this PO team will be prosecuted. They knew what was happening and facilitated it. I think there have already been some sharp words from Tribunal judges to the DWP.

More than anything it seems to be a system that is not fit for purpose being sustained by those who that very unfitness serves, i.e., government and those managing the DWP.

youtu.be/jbq0bf2ptbA?si=fqPlw6sMzdc_SjVd

Oops! The assessor accidentally recorded his lung capacity to be double the amount she clearly reads out when it's done.

We also attended the job centre several times whose primary focus seems to be to get people onto universal credit. She had to visit the job centre 3 times to get universal credit and had to have a fit for work assessment. I had to take unpaid leave from my full time job and a support worker had to attend. We had to queue up outside for a 9am appointment with loads of other people, many of whom stand across the road etc. It is humiliating. Some people are clearly ill. My dd is clearly very disabled. I am only adding this because this is not something I have experience of normally

Well, its encouraging to hear it takes a whole team of people to make such a mess, Jane.

Just to be clear no payments for ESA were paid from October 2022 onwards. She owed the council over 2k in contribution to care payments and I had to take a loan off the DWP/UC to get some money into her account.

They stopped my daughter's ESA in October 2022. They told me she could no longer claim it, even though I knew she could. In October 2023 I applied for universal credit because the matter wasn't being resolved. My MP has got involved and they paid 8k into her bank account (it is in my name as she lacks mental capacity) They sent me a letter saying they had underpaid from the period October 2022 - October 2023. They have lied to my MP saying they only hadn't paid her for two weeks. The other payment of 8k was for SDP (severe disability premium) underpaid, even though I have a letter saying it was for ESA. I doubt we would have got a payment at all if the MP hadn't got involved as they just kept lying to me (and I sent letters as well as making phonecalls) The woman from the ESA who actually helped me said that the whole year of records showed the money going out of their system but it wasn't going into our account. God knows what has happened but they are not being open about it with me or my MP. I am going to send copies of the letters to the MP for him to see they have told him different to me. I doubt we are an isolated case.

This is quite outing but I feel I need to post it as mistakes are obviously being made. The DWP keep focussing on change of address but no one had moved

The assessments aren't done by one person only.
As others have said this thread has been started for the sole purpose of scaremongering.