So Brits who live abroad can now vote in the General Election.

There's been plenty of speculation that once Sunak is ousted as PM he'll be off to the USA to pursue other avenues. Will those that intend to vote from their country of residence be happy for him to still have a vote and influence on how the UK is governed? (I do realise his vote would have nil influence but it's the principal at stake)

nanna8

I would be curious about how many ex pats actually will vote. I’m guessing not that many. I doubt it will make any difference at all.

I've lived in France for 15 years. I was asked by a French acquaintance if I would apply for citizenship in France. My answer was no because I am British. Much as I enjoy living here my answer was because I am not French. I do not think in the same way as the French.

I will vote in the GE because I care about what happens to the UK. I hate the way it is going at the moment. One friend who has lived here for longer than me has already started to apply for a postal vote. We did a postal vote for a previous election - it must have been when the Tories won back in 2010 and the forms for the postal vote, even though we applied well in advance, did not reach us in time. I seem to remember that there were many complaints at that time about delays.

Personally I had never thought of being anything other than British. I moved to Sweden because of my (non-Swedish) husband's job as a healthcare professional. We both retained citizenship of our own countries. We were unsure how long we would remain in Sweden as he works in a very sought after, shortage medical specialty. Sweden was not the only European country we lived in.

But we remained longer. I started a post-graduate degree and once the kids were in the school system moving became more difficult. Although we had thought at one time we would go to the UK as DH had received several attractive job offers to join the NHS. However Brexit changed all of that.

I decided that although I don't really feel Swedish that I should convert my long-term resident status into citizenship.

For me it was a very simple process as I was eligible in several separate categories of entitlement to citizenship and had been eligible for 18 years but never thought to claim it as I was a Brit. But if I had not -losing my EU status and rights would mean a lot more red tape, bureaucracy and regular trips to immigrant registration centres 150-200 miles away to get passport and visa stamps etc (they closed the one 10 miles from my house). Compared to others the process was unbelievably fast - Sweden allows dual nationals so that is not an issue. I had my Swedish citizenship 12 days after applying and I can get my passport at a nearby police station.

But there won't be any NHS job now for DH - not worth the immigration hassles to come anymore and be subjected to the hostile Home Office.

maddyone

^Citizens of Commonwealth countries other than the United Kingdom can not register to vote as over seas electors ^

From The Electoral Commission

So Commonwealth citizens are not eligible to vote in UK elections unless they are citizens of the United Kingdom.
I thought it sounded strange that they could.

I think what this means is that they cannot vote from Abroad as overseas electors - but they can vote if they live in the UK

I know a few people who gave up applying for citizenship in France because it was too onerous - mainly the language! My friend's DH, (she is half French), only got it because she went along to all the things with him and did all the hard work!

I think you are making the best of the situation there, Mamie. I was a bénévole too and set up the after-school homework club in my village in France. My loyalties were to the country I lived in, and I was happy to immerse myself fully. What was happening in the UK was of little significance and none of my business. You can't long to be part of something you have turned your back on, in my opinion.

maddyone

^Citizens of Commonwealth countries other than the United Kingdom can not register to vote as over seas electors ^

From The Electoral Commission

So Commonwealth citizens are not eligible to vote in UK elections unless they are citizens of the United Kingdom.
I thought it sounded strange that they could.

Perhaps it is a new thing then as it's in the Parliamentary document "Who can vote in UK Elections?" that Qualifying Commonwealth citizens have the right to vote in the UK

Qualifying Commonwealth citizen - A qualifying Commonwealth citizen is someone who is resident in the UK and who has leave to remain in the UK or does not require leave to remain

and

*Malta and Cyprus are both Commonwealth and EU countries. Citizens of both countries have voting rights to all elections in the UK, if they are resident and
fulfil all other criteria, because of their Commonwealth status*

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8985/CBP-8985.pdf

I think Rosie51 that the numbers each year are limited by the length of the queue. There are a lot of migrants to France, many of whom have French as their first language. When we applied for residence before Brexit our individual dossiers were over an inch thick.
My son in Spain has a Spanish wife and children. It still took him over two years and he got 97% in the language exam.
Look how hard the exam is for British citizenship.
People who think it is a simple solution really don't understand the complexities.
I am happy to be British in Europe. Not sure why people find that so hard to understand. I speak French and make a contribution as best I can. I am still not French.
The French understand this very well and are horrified at the idea of not having a vote in their country, wherever they live. I understand they even get voting booths in London.

My reply was to nanna8.

That's about it. It won't make any real difference anyway.
Will the MP of say Bournemouth East give a monkey's about the opinions of retired Mr & Mrs Expat in sunny Spain?

Citizens of Commonwealth countries other than the United Kingdom can not register to vote as over seas electors

From The Electoral Commission

So Commonwealth citizens are not eligible to vote in UK elections unless they are citizens of the United Kingdom.
I thought it sounded strange that they could.

Mamie

Exactly Cold. We have not gone through the (minimum) two year process for citizenship in France because there are lots of younger working people who need it much more than we do. Our son is now Spanish and has had to renounce his British citizenship.
I regret the fact that Brexit means I can no longer serve as an elected local councillor here. I do spend a lot of time teaching English on a voluntary basis, including the French U3A.

Mamie are you saying France only allows a set number of people to apply for/gain citizenship each year? How odd, I'd have thought qualifying for citizenship should be all that matters. Does anybody know if the UK has a strict number limit as googling doesn't give any answers?

I have never agreed with the Republic of Ireland having a vote in our elections. Why? We don’t have a vote in theirs! As for the whole of the Commonwealth, well to be frank, I had no idea. That means the people of a huge number of countries can actually vote in our elections!!! Absolutely and utterly ridiculous.

As for ex pats feeling smug because they can vote in our elections, well I’m afraid they simply have no morality. Anyone, anyone at all who thinks they have the right to vote in a British election, but has decided to go off and live elsewhere because it’s better, has no sense of morality at all.

Exactly Cold. We have not gone through the (minimum) two year process for citizenship in France because there are lots of younger working people who need it much more than we do. Our son is now Spanish and has had to renounce his British citizenship.
I regret the fact that Brexit means I can no longer serve as an elected local councillor here. I do spend a lot of time teaching English on a voluntary basis, including the French U3A.

It is a really difficult question. There is a difference between being a resident and being a citizen of a country - but many people do not seem to understand the difference. Some people are effectively not allowed to vote anywhere. In many European countries you can vote in the local elections after a number of years of residence but never in the General Election unless a citizen. But taking out citizenship can be a very complex and costly that takes years to achieve. Whereas residence in the pre-Brexit era was fairly straight forward process that only took several months.

Some countries do not allow dual citizenship so you would have to renounce your UK citizenship - something that Brits living in the Netherlands discovered post-Brexit. Sometimes decisions are not straight forward if you do not know whether it's a permanent move to another country or not. It's really not realistic to take a new citizenship every few years.

Britain has always had slightly odd rules around voting. As a solely British citizen I was not allowed to vote in the Brexit referendum even though it had a huge impact on my life and residential status in the EU. Yet my sister-in-law COULD vote in the Brexit referendum even though she was NOT a British Citizen as Citizens of the Republic of Ireland and the Commonwealth have full voting rights despite not being citizens (one of the reasons that several leading Brexiteers purchased citizenships in Malta/Cyprus to maintain their EU rights).

nanna8

I would be curious about how many ex pats actually will vote. I’m guessing not that many. I doubt it will make any difference at all.

I guess we will get the figures of people signing up from YouGov in due course. We have our votes and will be using them. At least the people who wish we hadn't got them back can blame Boris Johnson. 😂😂😂

I would be curious about how many ex pats actually will vote. I’m guessing not that many. I doubt it will make any difference at all.

My daughter and her family live in Scandinavia. They pay taxes there and have become citizens ( dual citizenship). She feels that she no longer has any right to be involved in decisions relating to Britain.
In contrast, an acquatance of mine worked in the Middle East for most of his life, avoiding tax,has his money off shore and lives in a sunny European country as he doesn't care for the English climate.
He owns a house here still ( several, in fact) and has a postal vote. He has lots of opinions about how this country is run, including criticism of the shortcomings of the NHS, education etc, etc.
I have , of course, pointed out to him that had he paid his tax here for the last forty years these services might, at least, be better funded. I am not happy that he has a vote.

Mamardoit well said! 👏👏👏

Yes I agree with this.

You pay tax because that's what those with an income should do. If you have a large enough uk pension then you pay tax. In the case of public sector pensions the UK taxpayer is still paying it. Sorry if that makes some of you take too big a gulp of your coffee!

The fact that you have family members still here and you worry about the NHS etc. doesn't mean you should have a say 15 years after you left the UK. No matter how up to date you think you are, how much uk tv you watch, reading the guardian on line, or talking to a family and friends in the uk, you are not up to date. More importantly you don't have to live with the consequences of your vote.

Have a wonderful healthy life wherever you live. Do what you need to do to vote in your new country and leave uk residents to vote for our MPs.

It’s not really about tax, it’s about investment in the country (not monetary investment.)

since Brexit those of us who are resident in France but not citizens can no longer vote in local or Parliament elections

Fine! If you’re not interested in becoming a citizen of France then don’t expect the benefits. It’s easily solved, become a citizen.

M0nica

Well, back in the 1770s, when the Americans were agitating for independence their cry was 'No taxation without representation'.

The modern version of this should be 'No representation, without taxation'

If you do not pay your taxes to the UK, you do not vote in our elections. Possible for the first 5 years, you could keep the right to vote by paying, say £1,000 a year to HMRC, but after that, you really have no longterm investment in this country, so why should you vote?

There are a lot of people who live here but do not pay tax.
They should still be entitled to vote from the age of 18 (or 16) even if they pay no tax.

That is certainly true DinahMo. I knew several ex-pats taxed by the UK but without a vote.

Nandalot

It didn’t even go to a vote in parliament. It was a statutory instrument. Do they think ex pats are likely to vote with the government?

Statutory Instruments are secondary legislation and have to be laid on the table in the Commons. They can then be 'prayed against' but I assume ex-pat voting went through without objection.

Many of the retirees who have moved to France (or other countries) worked for the State - ie teachers, nurses, firemen etc etc. Those pensions are taxed at source and they cannot claim back the tax paid because they are no longer resident. Instead, they are required to declare all their income in their new country of residence. Tax is calculated on their total income and they receive a credit for the tax deducted at source in the UK. This depends upon whether there is a Double Taxation Treaty in place, as there is in France.

Since Brexit those of us who are resident in France but aren't citizens can no longer vote in local or EU Parliament elections. So we are taxed but not represented.

I'm beginning to think that the issue rests with the two different definitions of the word citizen.
1:a person who legally belongs to a country and has the rights and protection of that country. A native.
Or
2:a person who actually lives in a particular place.