The PM continues to demonstrate amazingly poor taste!

Oreo

Galaxy
^I think the figure proposed for the green investment was a mistake to be honest, I know it's what they always accuse Starmer of, but it might have been better to be a bit more vague.^

Very true!
Yes naming such a vast amount, when each successive government always blames its predecessor for the state of the economy, was a mistake.
Mentioning a green pledge was a vote catcher, and is important, but is now overshadowed by his flip which will mean any advances will be measured against what was originally offered.

Galaxy

I think the figure proposed for the green investment was a mistake to be honest, I know it's what they always accuse Starmer of, but it might have been better to be a bit more vague

Very true!

Sunak and the rest of the Tories have no idea about ordinary people, they live in a golden bubble and are totally oblivious to how the rest of us live, their plan is simply to reduce tax for wealthy people.
I can see why Starmer changed the green pledge, the less money is in the kitty the less they can spend.
the last labour govt had a fantastic policy where you bought solar panels and sold excess power to the grid guaranteed for 25 yrs, it has been excellent for us but was cancelled asap by tories when they took over in favour of big business.
the former is what I want back again, Labour favour policies that help ordinary people, not big business so I'll vote Labour whoever is in charge. And they're better with the NHS cos they always have in mind ordinary folk.

I think the figure proposed for the green investment was a mistake to be honest, I know it's what they always accuse Starmer of, but it might have been better to be a bit more vague

From what I understand, they didn't know she was not in the gallery at the time of the exchange. She had been welcomed as it was thought that she was there, but she had been delayed, and arrived later.

Re the green power 'U turn' - Starmer can't win, can he? If he doesn't reveal his aspirations for when he gets into power he is accused of being rudderless, but how can he (or anyone) be expected to commit to doing things that cost so much money when he is not able to influence the budget he's likely to inherit? What he has done is not a U turn in the sense of a change of heart, but a recognition that the economy has been ruined by years of Tory policies and he will no longer be able to fulfil what was possible when he made the policy.

I would much rather be told that something is not achievable than be lied to (eg about the Brexit money supposedly coming into the NHS) and then be disappointed.

Germanshepherdsmum

She was not in the gallery at the time.

Yes, and it wasn't a transgender jibe - it was a jibe about Starmer's constant flip-flopping including what constitutes the definition of a woman.

We certainly need investment in infrastructure in the UK.

MayBee70

Callistemon21

Whitewavemark2

To the extent that if you had considered voting for him, it would prevent you from doing so, thus ensuring more of this dreadful government?

Starmer has now backtracked on Labour's plans for green power, one of their main policies.

I feel politically lost.

Maybe he’s committed to not making promises that he might not be able to keep, especially as he has no control over the economy and the current government are probably going to damage the economy even more by finding the money for tax cuts in an attempt to stay in power? Isn’t it refreshing for a politician to say that something they wanted to do is, at this moment in time, difficult to achieve?

But surely investment in infrastructure provides jobs and helps to stimulate the economy?

Callistemon21

Whitewavemark2

To the extent that if you had considered voting for him, it would prevent you from doing so, thus ensuring more of this dreadful government?

Starmer has now backtracked on Labour's plans for green power, one of their main policies.

I feel politically lost.

Maybe he’s committed to not making promises that he might not be able to keep, especially as he has no control over the economy and the current government are probably going to damage the economy even more by finding the money for tax cuts in an attempt to stay in power? Isn’t it refreshing for a politician to say that something they wanted to do is, at this moment in time, difficult to achieve?

I feel politically lost.

As do I.
Being unable to tell the truth about women, dragging Brianna’s name into it and now backtracking on the green pledge and he’s not even been elected yet. It’s not reassuring.

WWM2’s comment shows how bad the situation looks.

Whitewavemark2

To the extent that if you had considered voting for him, it would prevent you from doing so, thus ensuring more of this dreadful government?

Starmer has now backtracked on Labour's plans for green power, one of their main policies.

I feel politically lost.

Whitewavemark2

To the extent that if you had considered voting for him, it would prevent you from doing so, thus ensuring more of this dreadful government?

That really would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Whitewavemark2

To the extent that if you had considered voting for him, it would prevent you from doing so, thus ensuring more of this dreadful government?

I don’t know Whitewave.
I might spoil my ballot paper by writing none of the above.
My new Conservative candidate will be Suella Braverman, due to constituency boundaries changing.

Just another example of Rishi's tin ear.

To the extent that if you had considered voting for him, it would prevent you from doing so, thus ensuring more of this dreadful government?

Doodledog

I am not happy with Labour’s stance on trans issues and their intersection with women’s rights, but I think Starmer was in the right here.

Sunak’s comment was crass, and as I understand it Ms Ghey could have been in the gallery - neither of them knew that she had been held up. Sunak’s speech writer had fed him a ‘hilarious’ joke at Starmer’s expense (presumably written before it was known that Ms Ghey was planning to be there), and he wasn’t adaptable enough to go off-script and edit it as he went. That in itself doesn’t show high levels of intelligence or empathy, and I think it was right that he was pulled up for it.

To me it shows that Starmer is able to think quickly on his feet, and Sunak has to stick to a script regardless of changing circumstances. If you live by scoring points, you risk dying from your opponent scoring points I guess. Luckily this was another rather pointless spat at PMQs and not an exchange requiring quick thinking on the global stage. I also think he should have the grace to apologise to Brianna’s mother (who is, I suspect, well able to rise above it all anyway).

I agree with this.
I believe Sunak is wooden and although he must be intelligent because I believe he won a scholarship to go to a highly thought of public school, I don’t think he is good/intelligent politically. Starmer is much better, and is very intelligent, a successful barrister and KC, but has let himself down badly for many women, including myself, because of his inability to say honestly what a woman is. Some people are transgender, and that’s fine, but to be unable to say that 100% women do not have a penis, has coloured my view of him.

Allsorts

Keir made it something it wasn’t to deflect, the comment was made to score points over Keir and his frequent u turns. Keir twisted it. I don’t like either of them, but this silly score pointing has to stop.

Is it so long since we've had a general election that people have forgotten how the politics of it works? Each side trying to prove that the other parties are rubbish and have rubbish policies?

Point scoring at PMQs is all part of it.

If folks don't like the point scoring they're in for a few bad months...

CvD66

Tim Fox of the Times, has highlighted how Sunak has all his quips written out in advance, highlighted for response against topics Starmer is likely to bring up. So it was a planned attack - and given it was known Mrs Ghey was due in the HoC, it shows his advisors have no empathy whatsoever, either!

And the government minister sitting next to him was chuckling away at his set speech.

Allsorts

Keir made it something it wasn’t to deflect, the comment was made to score points over Keir and his frequent u turns. Keir twisted it. I don’t like either of them, but this silly score pointing has to stop.

Yes.

Keir made it something it wasn’t to deflect, the comment was made to score points over Keir and his frequent u turns. Keir twisted it. I don’t like either of them, but this silly score pointing has to stop.

Oreo

BlueBelle

And I believe he’s refused to apologise even though the father asked him to

Just cos someone asks for an apology doesn’t always mean that they deserve one.
Am no Sunak or Tory follower but think Starmer seized on the comment by Sunak to make political outrage at the expense of Mrs Ghey.She and her DH are now drawn into this situation.
No doubt fuelled by friends and certain journos Mr Ghey is now demanding an apology.Sunak had already made a statement saying how awful the case was and praising Mrs Ghey.The comments made to Starmer were about several policies and a jibe about not knowing what a woman was, which tbh worries me and I hope Starmer takes women’s concerns more seriously once in number ten.
The most you could say is that it was unfortunate on that particular day, but politics and policies can’t not be talked of no matter who is visiting Parliament.
Both Sunak and Starmer made very positive statements about the sad case, but it’s to be remembered that there are so many awful stabbings to death by teenagers of other teenagers, for all sorts of reasons that never even get a mention by politicians.

I don’t know if you watched that Sky TV interview I posted above Oreo, but Sunak was informed in advance that Brianna’s mother would be there, so it was tone deaf of him to make the jibe at Starmer in the first place. In my opinion it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other.

Good post Oreo.

Mollygo - they’re separated

Not sure what Mr Spooner wants an apology for, unless it’s for mentioning Brianna’s name, and that was Starmer who did that.

It wasn’t the most opportune moment for RS to mention that particular item, but it was on a long list of U turns and strangely enough, today we are met with yet another U turn about the green pledge. Maybe, knowing that U turn was coming today prompted KS to stir things up so people would be focused elsewhere. Who knows?

I don’t want to vote Tory at the next election, but KS makes it hard to have confidence in Labour.

Incidentally, I did wonder why Mr S wasn’t there supporting Brianna’s mother.

No doubt fuelled by friends and certain journos Mr Ghey is now demanding an apology.

How could you possibly know that? It's pure, and rather malicious, speculation on your part.

He's actually called Mr Spooner, BTW.