Finnair - Weighing Passengers

I think in the early days of commercial flight both passengers ( and crew) and baggage were weighed and placed so the plane would balance and there was enough fuel for the total weight. I think later an average per person weight was used for the fuel/loading calculations so perhaps research will show if different figures are more appropriate. Back in the early days (post war) most people would have been a bit undernourished.
It might be better to get passengers to voluntarily declare their weight when booking or filling in other forms. Just booking two seats for a passenger who requires a larger space may not be very safe or comfortable as the metal support between the seats would be in the wrong place if sitting over two seats.

I totally agree with you, Cossy. Yes, some overweight and obese people are that way because they eat too much, but it's not always as simple as that. Certain medications can cause weight gain - quite considerable weight gain, in some cases - my friend put on several stones in weight (and became seriously depressed as a result) because of the medication she has to take for a lifelong kidney condition. However, there can be many other causes too. It's all too easy for some people to point fingers and say a person is overweight because they are lazy and stuff their faces!

If you go skiing, and do not take your our own skis the hire shops weigh you, to ensure the appropriate skis for your weight and ability are hired to you.

Seems logical to do the same for flying.

foxie48

MissInterpreted

Let the fat shaming begin...

Well I, for one, hope that we are a mature empathetic group of people, who will not do that but the above comment is often used to close down conversation. I like to see people who struggle with their weight get much more help and support via the NHS. It's one area of primary health care that would make a huge difference to people's lives and offer a return on the investment. I'd also like to see the govt take a more pro-active role in ensuring the food for sale in our supermarkets isn't contributing to the problem.

I completely agree that overweight people need more support. It is easy to be judgmental blaming those who are over weight but it’s not so simple. I don’t believe people willingly damage their health by risking disease and early death by over eating.

The rates of obesity are markedly higher in the most deprived areas of the U.K. for example, and many cheaper “fast” foods are carb, sugar and fat laden. As Maizie says there is strong resistance and lobbying by the food industry at any attempt by the government to modify marketing or manufacture of unhealthy drinks and foods.

I also believe think obesity should be addressed in a more holistic way, not just focussing on diet but lifestyle, exercise and psychological support.

My GP believes that obesity is one of the biggest challenges to the NHS, particularly in the future as more children are overweight.

I think it’s inevitable in the future as increasing numbers of obese people travel, that airlines will insist on very large customers purchasing an additional seat. Will necessitate weight notification on booking.

GrannyGravy13

MissInterpreted

Let the fat shaming begin...

It’s nothing to do with fat shaming

Aircraft’s safety relies on weight to fuel ratio along with the weight capacity of the aircraft itself.

Sorry safety of all onboard should always be uppermost.

Spot on GrannyGravy13. There was an air crash in the US some years ago that highlighted weight. A small commuter turboprop plane crashed on take-off killing all on board. Air Crash investigators found that out dated information had been used to calculate the collective weight of the passengers. In the decades since that data had been distributed to airlines, people had become heavier. When they worked out the true weight of the passengers on board that flight, the plane was heavily overloaded. Safety before anything else, surely.

maddyone’s suggestion is a good one. Declare weight (and height) at the time of booking. Then the airline can plan its seat configuration accordingly as well as make the other calculations it has to do about fuel, total weight and load distribution.

Any system planner knows that you have to plan for what is or what can reasonably be predicted, not what there would be in an ideal homogenized society.

You cannot tell people to stop having children because it adds to the housing crisis or adds to the pressure for school places. You train builders and teachers and build more houses and schools.

You cannot tell people not to get sick because the NHS is in crisis. You train more doctors and nurses and build more hospitals.

You cannot tell people they are too fat and must pay extra for the space they need. You can tackle the reasons for obesity, insofar as obesity can be avoided but, at the same time, adapt services to meet the needs of people who need a bit more space, just as we have done for people who have disabilities and need better access. Nobody would dream of charging a person for needing the larger accessible toilet or a wider parking space.

MissInterpreted

I totally agree with you, Cossy. Yes, some overweight and obese people are that way because they eat too much, but it's not always as simple as that. Certain medications can cause weight gain - quite considerable weight gain, in some cases - my friend put on several stones in weight (and became seriously depressed as a result) because of the medication she has to take for a lifelong kidney condition. However, there can be many other causes too. It's all too easy for some people to point fingers and say a person is overweight because they are lazy and stuff their faces!

I hope people on here won't say those things. Many of us are on drugs that can cause weight gain, I am so tbh I'm finding it harder to stay within my ideal weight. I'm recovering from an accident and despite hardly eating anything for the two weeks I was an inpatient I came home 10kg heavier. All of it was fluid caused by trauma but anyone who didn't know me would have thought I had massively fat legs and a very mis-shapen body. This thread isn't about being judgemental but I think it's not unreasonable to discuss how an increasingly obese population affects us all and it does. It costs the NHS £6.5 billion and is the second most preventable cause of cancer.

Galaxy

I have just lost 3 stone, I was fat, you can use any words you like to describe that situation but I was fat. The difference it has made to my health and just level of physical fitness is is beyond words. I actually find it quite frightening.

I do hope you manage to keep the weight off, Galaxy

However, as MissInterpreted said, it's not always simple as some medications and lack of mobility due to various reasons can cause people to put on weight.

I have just had chocolate biscuits Callistemon so maybe not

I agree that there are some beyond our control medical reasons for obesity but these are relatively rare.

I am in NZ at present where there is far less body shaming. Everyone wears shorts! No one judges anyone else but there Ris and here's me judging a lot of very overweight young people and also incessant advertising of Kentucky Fried Chicken, chips, pizzas, etc These companies sponsor TV programmes, sports matches, and are hard to get away from.

😲

I ate a satsuma 😇
It didn't make any difference, I didn't lose any weight.

Weighing sounds an excellent idea to me, also stating weight (and telling the truth!) when booking.

Let’s face it, we are shamed enough getting through security as it is, stripping off, told off, pacemaker people taken to one side, what difference would weighing make? Unless you are an extremely sensitive soul.

I am overweight, early obese , don’t eat junk exercise regularly walk often never been in hospital until 4 years ago fir a day care op snd 2 years ago fir new hip.
I take no medication so no burden on the NHS but yes I travelled long haul a few years ago snd was squashed between two tall and very overweight people which made for a very uncomfortable journey.
I don’t know what the answer is.
Well done Galaxy 😁

Some are overweight because of drugs, illness, or disability, but what I find shocking is that 1 in 4 of the population as a whole is obese not merely overweight. I was surprised that more men are overweight (not obese) than women.

Am I not entitled to have full use of seat I’ve paid for. To have more seats available for obese people makes it more expensive for others it’s not practical or fair.. Having travelled in a 4 1/2 hour flight with the person next to me spilling over onto me I felt sick. Have certain rows for the overweight.

Seats are so tiny now so they can fit more of them into the plane . Where once everyone had a porthole now you don’t because the the rows are no longer inline with the portholes.
So yes we might be larger but not helped by airlines squeezing more seats and rows to make more ££££&&

If people need two seats they should pay for two seats - not fat shaming at all , just fair . I am not slim by any means but if I was grossly overweight I would prefer to pay for two seats to ensure the comfort of not only me but the unfortunate passenger next to me.

Exactly, silverlining48.

The width of a seat on an Airbus 380, Boeing 747 and Boeing 777 is 17.5 inches.

How many people, other than children, skinny teenagers and the very slim have a clothed hip girth of 35 inches?

According to modelling agencies, the ideal hip girth for a female model with not an ounce of fat on her is is 33-35 inches.

The average dress size for a woman in the UK is 16. Marks & Spencer guide size 16 = 43 inch hips.

In other words, the average women is going to hang over the edge of an airplane seat.

Make the seats bigger.

I think this is a great idea and thought it should have been done years ago. Whenever we travelled abroad, as someone who weighs 9 stone, I always thought it unfair that my hand luggage should be the same as someone who weighs double my weight.

I have sympathy with you Silverlining
We both eat more or less the same food and quantity. I’m 8stone size 12.
He goes to the gym everyday to keep his weight at 14 Stone. He rarely drinks. He jokes that he can turn an apple into a pound of fat. And, he doesn’t have a sweet tooth 🤷‍♀️

In other words, the average women is going to hang over the edge of an airplane seat.

In other words "Does my bum look big in this seat?"

granfromafar

I think this is a great idea and thought it should have been done years ago. Whenever we travelled abroad, as someone who weighs 9 stone, I always thought it unfair that my hand luggage should be the same as someone who weighs double my weight.

Well then, you would say that, wouldn't you?

I think it's a good idea for a pilot project by the airline, to get a better sense of the actual weight of people, including their carry on luggage.

And I do think there should be some government standards imposed on airline seating. Perhaps there already is, but I do think it needs updating. Airlines are cramming more people into an already tight space. Average weights are more than they were 10 or 20 years ago.

My DH and I had a bit of an eye-roll when we were asked to change seats to balance the weight of the plane on a flight last fall. I'm average, and DH weighs all of 145lb, but the plane seemed to be full of large men. We also do not use carry on luggage, just a small personal bag. Of course we did move, but it seemed questionable to us.

Finnair is running a "voluntary and anonymous" scheme weighing people at embarquation apparently for statistical information to inform "current aircraft balance calculations" and will be used for balance and loading calculations for the next five years.
This sounds to me not at all unreasonable and I would not object to being asked IF I would participate.
Foxie 48 makes some good points regarding the effects of real serious obesity on the individual and the NHS and emphasises the necessity for positive NHS initiatives to help people who are seriously overweight.
I don't believe that any of this is "fat shaming".
Completely separately and independently of aeronautic considerations I believe that it is completely unacceptable to humiliate anyone publicly for anything including their size.
People of any size have a right to self-respect and to be identified by and valued for factors other than their size.
Some people I believe really have a tendency to be large or fat or to hold weight. I am not huge but solid ; my husband eats whatever he wants , whenever he wants yet should he miss lunch loses weight. I gain weight by walking past the cake shop.
One can also ponder that a life spent doing nothing except worrying about your size is a life wasted;
How , for example , are the states of our souls ?

Your experience, CanadianGran, sounds like grocers using old-fashioned weighing scales where the smaller weights are tried to get the sides to balance.

This Forbes article is interesting and describes some of the standards.

www.forbes.com/sites/benbaldanza/2022/11/14/the-faa-limits-seats-on-airplanes---seat-sizes-dont-need-regulation/

I didn't know that international airline regulations stipulate that a full plane must be capable of evacuation in 90 seconds.

Airlines must regularly prove that they can meet the evacuation standards. They tend to do this in a sterile aircraft hangar, load the plane full with healthy people, and use a stopwatch to measure the evacuation time. Critics argue that these best case examples do not reflect the reality of a panicked emergency where many customers may not be able to move so quickly.

I think this opens up a whole new debate, not just about larger people who may be less agile but about everyone who travels and their relative agility.

On the basis that older people tend, generally, to move more slowly than younger people, in order to meet the evacuation time standards, should the capacity of planes carrying a majority of older people be reduced? Should they be charged more because airlines wouldn't be able fill a plane to its maximum capacity and meet safety standards?

I think it would be a very slippery slope indeed if we start using such factors to restrict people's freedom to travel but we should be looking much more closely at the price we are prepared to pay to travel comfortably and safely.

As the article says: The economics of airline seats are stark ... adding seats to the plane, in most cases, adds powerful marginal economics to the airline.

Our comfort and safety is being compromised but the factors are much more complex than the size of people.