Finnair - Weighing Passengers

Some years back we were boarding an internal flight in the US and were told we were being moved to other seats where it would be more comfortable for us.
We watched as a large young woman sat in our 3 seat row, and took up 2. 1/2 of the seats. We wouldn’t have been able to sit down. We were lucky, there were a couple of spare seats. But what if there hadn’t been?

Making seats bigger will mean less passengers and higher fares. I accept that some people cannot help their obesity but it’s still unfair to expect others to pay extra and/or spend their journeys in discomfort. It’s not nice to be squeezed and uncomfortable. A friend was on a flight recently and the rather large lady next to her asked if she could lift the arm rest between them, she rightly said no. The lady wasn’t happy but frankly if you want more space go to business class!

It had to happen because the obesity tidal-wave has already placed an extra financial burden on hospitals and the ambulance services, something they don't need.
Hospitals have had to invest in re-inforced beds lest a normal bed collapses under the extremely overweight and ditto ambulances. Imagine that? It's becoming almost normal for a person to be so very heavy that they are likely to cause damage to an ambulance. Ye gods!

Dollymixtures

I suffered an extremely uncomfortable flight to Barbados for our 25th anniversary and it spoilt my enjoyment of the exciting flight. I was in between a huge man whose arms and middle flowed over the seat arms (and he made no attempt at all to pull them back) and my husband who did his best to move sideways. The chap’s wife was carefully and comfortably sat in the outside seat. I literally could not put my arms at my side and my chest was almost folded in half so I couldn’t breathe!I kept trying to get my elbow behind the big arms but he was not for moving.

I put up with it as long as I could but as I couldn’t breathe, I just had to ask the air hostess if there was anything at all she could do to help! She was able to move me onto a spare seat with other ladies and thereby changed the whole experience. I’m not fat shaming but the couple obviously knew how impossible it was for him to be on an inside seat but too bad, the neighbour just has to suck it up!

Your unfortunate experience Dollymixtures is pretty much why I started the thread, very unfair imo to those who are seated next to whoever is spilling over into their personal space.

Not trying to fat shame, the first time I went to the US, it did forcibly strike me as to how many very large, often young people are on mobility scooters, but would also get off them, in Disney type theme parks and walk about. I don't believe it's always health related, the portions served in some US restaurants are ridiculously over sized and bringing some of those type of establishments here hasn't done our own population a lot of good. I read an article where one journalist posed the question, are people disabled because they're overweight or are they overweight because they're disabled?

With that in mind I take the point that some people have serious health issues that affect their weight. I have an under active thyroid which goes hand in hand with a slow metabolism and feeling sluggish, so I have to be careful as to what I eat I know only too well after that diagnosis weight gain is easily acquired and I do need to go to the gym which I'd put on the back burner since Covid and a couple of other mishaps, but have just started going again.

I suffered an extremely uncomfortable flight to Barbados for our 25th anniversary and it spoilt my enjoyment of the exciting flight. I was in between a huge man whose arms and middle flowed over the seat arms (and he made no attempt at all to pull them back) and my husband who did his best to move sideways. The chap’s wife was carefully and comfortably sat in the outside seat. I literally could not put my arms at my side and my chest was almost folded in half so I couldn’t breathe!I kept trying to get my elbow behind the big arms but he was not for moving.

I put up with it as long as I could but as I couldn’t breathe, I just had to ask the air hostess if there was anything at all she could do to help! She was able to move me onto a spare seat with other ladies and thereby changed the whole experience. I’m not fat shaming but the couple obviously knew how impossible it was for him to be on an inside seat but too bad, the neighbour just has to suck it up!

I've already posted on this but forgot to agree that it seems to me that seat sizes , particularly on trains , the transport system that I have the most experience of, have been getting smaller.
This means more seats to sell so more profit.
We need seats to be larger , not smaller !

How long will it be before airlines start providing bigger seats, at higher fares? And will make it compulsory to declare on booking that you will fit in a standard seat without overflowing?

Your experience, CanadianGran, sounds like grocers using old-fashioned weighing scales where the smaller weights are tried to get the sides to balance.

This Forbes article is interesting and describes some of the standards.

www.forbes.com/sites/benbaldanza/2022/11/14/the-faa-limits-seats-on-airplanes---seat-sizes-dont-need-regulation/

I didn't know that international airline regulations stipulate that a full plane must be capable of evacuation in 90 seconds.

Airlines must regularly prove that they can meet the evacuation standards. They tend to do this in a sterile aircraft hangar, load the plane full with healthy people, and use a stopwatch to measure the evacuation time. Critics argue that these best case examples do not reflect the reality of a panicked emergency where many customers may not be able to move so quickly.

I think this opens up a whole new debate, not just about larger people who may be less agile but about everyone who travels and their relative agility.

On the basis that older people tend, generally, to move more slowly than younger people, in order to meet the evacuation time standards, should the capacity of planes carrying a majority of older people be reduced? Should they be charged more because airlines wouldn't be able fill a plane to its maximum capacity and meet safety standards?

I think it would be a very slippery slope indeed if we start using such factors to restrict people's freedom to travel but we should be looking much more closely at the price we are prepared to pay to travel comfortably and safely.

As the article says: The economics of airline seats are stark ... adding seats to the plane, in most cases, adds powerful marginal economics to the airline.

Our comfort and safety is being compromised but the factors are much more complex than the size of people.

Finnair is running a "voluntary and anonymous" scheme weighing people at embarquation apparently for statistical information to inform "current aircraft balance calculations" and will be used for balance and loading calculations for the next five years.
This sounds to me not at all unreasonable and I would not object to being asked IF I would participate.
Foxie 48 makes some good points regarding the effects of real serious obesity on the individual and the NHS and emphasises the necessity for positive NHS initiatives to help people who are seriously overweight.
I don't believe that any of this is "fat shaming".
Completely separately and independently of aeronautic considerations I believe that it is completely unacceptable to humiliate anyone publicly for anything including their size.
People of any size have a right to self-respect and to be identified by and valued for factors other than their size.
Some people I believe really have a tendency to be large or fat or to hold weight. I am not huge but solid ; my husband eats whatever he wants , whenever he wants yet should he miss lunch loses weight. I gain weight by walking past the cake shop.
One can also ponder that a life spent doing nothing except worrying about your size is a life wasted;
How , for example , are the states of our souls ?

I think it's a good idea for a pilot project by the airline, to get a better sense of the actual weight of people, including their carry on luggage.

And I do think there should be some government standards imposed on airline seating. Perhaps there already is, but I do think it needs updating. Airlines are cramming more people into an already tight space. Average weights are more than they were 10 or 20 years ago.

My DH and I had a bit of an eye-roll when we were asked to change seats to balance the weight of the plane on a flight last fall. I'm average, and DH weighs all of 145lb, but the plane seemed to be full of large men. We also do not use carry on luggage, just a small personal bag. Of course we did move, but it seemed questionable to us.

granfromafar

I think this is a great idea and thought it should have been done years ago. Whenever we travelled abroad, as someone who weighs 9 stone, I always thought it unfair that my hand luggage should be the same as someone who weighs double my weight.

Well then, you would say that, wouldn't you?

In other words, the average women is going to hang over the edge of an airplane seat.

In other words "Does my bum look big in this seat?"

I have sympathy with you Silverlining
We both eat more or less the same food and quantity. I’m 8stone size 12.
He goes to the gym everyday to keep his weight at 14 Stone. He rarely drinks. He jokes that he can turn an apple into a pound of fat. And, he doesn’t have a sweet tooth 🤷‍♀️

I think this is a great idea and thought it should have been done years ago. Whenever we travelled abroad, as someone who weighs 9 stone, I always thought it unfair that my hand luggage should be the same as someone who weighs double my weight.

Exactly, silverlining48.

The width of a seat on an Airbus 380, Boeing 747 and Boeing 777 is 17.5 inches.

How many people, other than children, skinny teenagers and the very slim have a clothed hip girth of 35 inches?

According to modelling agencies, the ideal hip girth for a female model with not an ounce of fat on her is is 33-35 inches.

The average dress size for a woman in the UK is 16. Marks & Spencer guide size 16 = 43 inch hips.

In other words, the average women is going to hang over the edge of an airplane seat.

Make the seats bigger.

If people need two seats they should pay for two seats - not fat shaming at all , just fair . I am not slim by any means but if I was grossly overweight I would prefer to pay for two seats to ensure the comfort of not only me but the unfortunate passenger next to me.

Seats are so tiny now so they can fit more of them into the plane . Where once everyone had a porthole now you don’t because the the rows are no longer inline with the portholes.
So yes we might be larger but not helped by airlines squeezing more seats and rows to make more ££££&&

Am I not entitled to have full use of seat I’ve paid for. To have more seats available for obese people makes it more expensive for others it’s not practical or fair.. Having travelled in a 4 1/2 hour flight with the person next to me spilling over onto me I felt sick. Have certain rows for the overweight.

Some are overweight because of drugs, illness, or disability, but what I find shocking is that 1 in 4 of the population as a whole is obese not merely overweight. I was surprised that more men are overweight (not obese) than women.

I am overweight, early obese , don’t eat junk exercise regularly walk often never been in hospital until 4 years ago fir a day care op snd 2 years ago fir new hip.
I take no medication so no burden on the NHS but yes I travelled long haul a few years ago snd was squashed between two tall and very overweight people which made for a very uncomfortable journey.
I don’t know what the answer is.
Well done Galaxy 😁

Weighing sounds an excellent idea to me, also stating weight (and telling the truth!) when booking.

Let’s face it, we are shamed enough getting through security as it is, stripping off, told off, pacemaker people taken to one side, what difference would weighing make? Unless you are an extremely sensitive soul.

😲

I ate a satsuma 😇
It didn't make any difference, I didn't lose any weight.

I agree that there are some beyond our control medical reasons for obesity but these are relatively rare.

I am in NZ at present where there is far less body shaming. Everyone wears shorts! No one judges anyone else but there Ris and here's me judging a lot of very overweight young people and also incessant advertising of Kentucky Fried Chicken, chips, pizzas, etc These companies sponsor TV programmes, sports matches, and are hard to get away from.

I have just had chocolate biscuits Callistemon so maybe not

Galaxy

I have just lost 3 stone, I was fat, you can use any words you like to describe that situation but I was fat. The difference it has made to my health and just level of physical fitness is is beyond words. I actually find it quite frightening.

I do hope you manage to keep the weight off, Galaxy

However, as MissInterpreted said, it's not always simple as some medications and lack of mobility due to various reasons can cause people to put on weight.