So, our Home Office celebrates World Hajib Day ??

Do British Airways ban the hijab on their airways? If they ban the cross and allow the hijab it's extremely biased against Christians.

The ban on the Christian cross was a few years ago. I think it may have been British Airways, or possibly it was a bank. I’m unsure, but the lady involved took it to court, and if I remember rightly, she lost her case.
There was something a week or so that I saw online, it could even have been on Gransnet, but I’m not sure, but some people were prevented from singing hymns in the street. I’m sorry the details are hazy of both events, but they definitely happened.

When I consider female oppression, even in our “liberal” western culture it strikes me women are still oppressed. Young women seek cosmetic surgery at ever younger ages, or starve themselves in an effort to conform to the accepted beauty “norm”. How many women teeter around on tiptoes wearing uncomfortably high heels because it makes their legs look slimmer or more shapely? Perhaps we are oppressed not necessarily by men nowadays, but prevailing culture?

As to hijab although it is perhaps more of a choice for women in this country, they are still oppressed by running the risk of abuse in public by some racist individuals, so they have to be quite brave to exercise that choice.

Are women ever truly free of oppression I wonder?

Urmstongran

Should clarify.
It’s the Home Office Islamist Network. (HOIN).
Who even knew such a subset existed?
Me neither.

Neither did I.
What on earth is it for and what does it do?

Freya5

Callistemon21

TerriBull

"seem" is the operative word in VS post we can never know whether a woman wearing a hijab is doing so of free choice. I completely accept that Muslims are not a homogeneous mass there are versions of that religion as indeed there are of the other Abrahamic faiths and like those there will be those who are born into who have the freedom to merely pay lip service or just became non believers However, lets not forget at the extreme end there are all manner of atrocities committed against women. I find the idea of taking a day to celebrate an aspect of any religious attire bordering on the preposterous. Imagine France endorsing such an idea?

It is a protected right to wear an item which is a symbol of faith, as it should be, but an organisation which is part of a government department should not be celebrating a symbol of any particular faith.

Yet they ban Christians from wearing a cross, from singing, arrested, or praying in the street, carrying a Bible. London of course.

Who do?

Whoever that is, they are behaving illegally.

Callistemon21

TerriBull

"seem" is the operative word in VS post we can never know whether a woman wearing a hijab is doing so of free choice. I completely accept that Muslims are not a homogeneous mass there are versions of that religion as indeed there are of the other Abrahamic faiths and like those there will be those who are born into who have the freedom to merely pay lip service or just became non believers However, lets not forget at the extreme end there are all manner of atrocities committed against women. I find the idea of taking a day to celebrate an aspect of any religious attire bordering on the preposterous. Imagine France endorsing such an idea?

It is a protected right to wear an item which is a symbol of faith, as it should be, but an organisation which is part of a government department should not be celebrating a symbol of any particular faith.

Yet they ban Christians from wearing a cross, from singing, arrested, or praying in the street, carrying a Bible. London of course.

The difference is that some women choose to shave their heads; there is no compulsion, religious or familial, on them to do so.

Aveline

Glorianny Jewish women shaving their heads then wearing wigs is just plain daft.

So is dressing like you live in the desert, don't you think. Let's not be hypocritical here. How about lambasting women who like their heads shorn, fashion statement, let's have a go at them too, shall we.

Some cultures are at an early stage of development. They will take time to catch up. Even in western cultures women used to wear hats in church though omission did not result in a public flogging. Thankfully that nonsense is mostly in the bin nowadays.

Callistemon21

Casdon

Callistemon21

Casdon

Urmstongran

Casdon

It’s not an organisation though, it’s a network for people of a particular faith who work in the civil service, and those networks exist for all major faiths, so they will all do their own specific celebration within their own network.

Hopefully not on taxpayers money though Casdon! I’d be very surprised if this was all done in their own free time. Let civil servants concentrate on the main job in hand. Not silly distractions.

This explains why there are networks and how they work.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/faith-and-belief-toolkit/the-civil-service-faith-and-belief-toolkit

How did I manage to work for the Civil Service for all those years and yet be unaware of these networks? 🤔
Perhaps it's a London-centric thing.
Or perhaps we were just so very busy all the time.

It’s probably a last few years thing I would guess, so maybe not around in your day (or mine). We did have prayer rooms in the NHS, but that was as far as it went.

Oh yes, I am quite ancient 😂

I did read that the World Hajib Day was the brainchild of an American Muslim woman, and that Teresa May attended the launch in 2017 when she was PM. So it is quite new - I don’t know when the networks were launched though.

Casdon

Callistemon21

Casdon

Urmstongran

Casdon

It’s not an organisation though, it’s a network for people of a particular faith who work in the civil service, and those networks exist for all major faiths, so they will all do their own specific celebration within their own network.

Hopefully not on taxpayers money though Casdon! I’d be very surprised if this was all done in their own free time. Let civil servants concentrate on the main job in hand. Not silly distractions.

This explains why there are networks and how they work.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/faith-and-belief-toolkit/the-civil-service-faith-and-belief-toolkit

How did I manage to work for the Civil Service for all those years and yet be unaware of these networks? 🤔
Perhaps it's a London-centric thing.
Or perhaps we were just so very busy all the time.

It’s probably a last few years thing I would guess, so maybe not around in your day (or mine). We did have prayer rooms in the NHS, but that was as far as it went.

Oh yes, I am quite ancient 😂

Some Muslim women have such restricted lives that there is little evidence of things changing in time.
When women are not allowed to leave their homes without a male relative escort.
And not allowed to learn English so thay cannot be corrupted by us Decadent Brits.

Callistemon21

Casdon

Urmstongran

Casdon

It’s not an organisation though, it’s a network for people of a particular faith who work in the civil service, and those networks exist for all major faiths, so they will all do their own specific celebration within their own network.

Hopefully not on taxpayers money though Casdon! I’d be very surprised if this was all done in their own free time. Let civil servants concentrate on the main job in hand. Not silly distractions.

This explains why there are networks and how they work.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/faith-and-belief-toolkit/the-civil-service-faith-and-belief-toolkit

How did I manage to work for the Civil Service for all those years and yet be unaware of these networks? 🤔
Perhaps it's a London-centric thing.
Or perhaps we were just so very busy all the time.

It’s probably a last few years thing I would guess, so maybe not around in your day (or mine). We did have prayer rooms in the NHS, but that was as far as it went.

Most single deity religions have/do suppress women and have a degree of misogyny as part of their culture.

Tbh - and this is a purely personal opinion based on not a single shred of evidence, but I think that it has simply become fashionable to wear the various forms of veil by female Islamic followers. I’m sure years ago that Muslim women wore a simple head covering, much like Christian women always covered their hair and dressed modestly when attending church. I’m sure this will change over time.

We take pride in this country in allowing freedom of religious expression in the way we dress etc. France takes another view - perhaps our celebrating Islamic dress is cocking a snook at France😄😄

Women in the U.K. have still not won complete equality in various fields - so I’m not sure we have too much to crow about.

Most of the Catholic Nuns at my school wore habits although the dresses were modern (just below knee length). This was progress from when my older sister attended the same school years before. Senior Nuns were still wearing the full length garb then - hence they got called penguins.

Many women including film stars and our Queen and Hilda Ogden wore headscarves when out and prior to that hats were common.
Why the obsession with what women do with bits of fabric and the bits that they cover or not as the case may be.
As long as there is free will being exercised in Britain, it is really naff all to do with anyone but the wearer.imo

Glorianny

flappergirl

Glorianny

If women want to wear the hijab they should be allowed to. If they want to celebrate wearing it they should do. Women dictating to other women what they may wear is no more acceptable than men doing so. Linking the wearing with FGM which is not a muslim practice but a cultural one is ignorant and unacceptable.
One is mutilation. The other is simply choosing a different form of dress. Permit women that choice.

Glorianny, please read my post above. I know that FGM is a cultural practice but so is wearing the hijab. The Quran only advises women to take a scarf and cover their chests. Islam, as well as many other religions, is blurred with cultural practices and most of those have been dictated by men. It is a patriarchal world.

As I said in my previous post, wearing the hijab as a choice is not always the case and simplifies the matter. An islamic woman living in the UK does not necessarily have the same choices as her western peers. Violence against women and girls in the Islamic, and also Hindu communities, is a strong possibility where they eschew tradition. Forced marriages, underage marriages, abduction and acid attacks do happen.

I have no objection to women wearing whatever they wish. Their body, their choice but is it?

There are feminist scholars studying the Quran who have decided to wear the hijab. You are entitled to your beliefs but so are they.
Islam has a long and interesting history and many women in it were educated and empowered before women in the west.

Yes Glorianny, I am very well aware there are feminist Scholars who wear hijab through choice. There are also many women in Islam who are not Scholars and who wear it through choice. I also know a great deal about the long and interesting history of Islam, much of which is to be admired.

Absolutely nowhere in either of my posts have I suggested that women should not be able to choose. Women everywhere, not just in Islam.

Neither am I expressing "beliefs", I am expressing facts. There are many women who do not have the choice and who follow traditions because they dare not do otherwise. I know this to be the case.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny one of my best girlfriends is Muslim, my nearest neighbours are Muslim.

My opinions are in no way related to ^colonialism*

Read the article then consider if your views are as informed as you imagine.

Thank you for your advice, but I know where my views come from.

Well obviously not from women who consider colonialism changed their society.

As one of my girlfriends had her family torn apart in the partition of India, I am aware of colonialism both its advantages and disadvantages.

Casdon

Urmstongran

Casdon

It’s not an organisation though, it’s a network for people of a particular faith who work in the civil service, and those networks exist for all major faiths, so they will all do their own specific celebration within their own network.

Hopefully not on taxpayers money though Casdon! I’d be very surprised if this was all done in their own free time. Let civil servants concentrate on the main job in hand. Not silly distractions.

This explains why there are networks and how they work.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/faith-and-belief-toolkit/the-civil-service-faith-and-belief-toolkit

How did I manage to work for the Civil Service for all those years and yet be unaware of these networks? 🤔
Perhaps it's a London-centric thing.
Or perhaps we were just so very busy all the time.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny one of my best girlfriends is Muslim, my nearest neighbours are Muslim.

My opinions are in no way related to ^colonialism*

Read the article then consider if your views are as informed as you imagine.

Thank you for your advice, but I know where my views come from.

Well obviously not from women who consider colonialism changed their society.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny one of my best girlfriends is Muslim, my nearest neighbours are Muslim.

My opinions are in no way related to ^colonialism*

Read the article then consider if your views are as informed as you imagine.

Thank you for your advice, but I know where my views come from.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny one of my best girlfriends is Muslim, my nearest neighbours are Muslim.

My opinions are in no way related to ^colonialism*

Read the article then consider if your views are as informed as you imagine.

flappergirl

Glorianny

If women want to wear the hijab they should be allowed to. If they want to celebrate wearing it they should do. Women dictating to other women what they may wear is no more acceptable than men doing so. Linking the wearing with FGM which is not a muslim practice but a cultural one is ignorant and unacceptable.
One is mutilation. The other is simply choosing a different form of dress. Permit women that choice.

Glorianny, please read my post above. I know that FGM is a cultural practice but so is wearing the hijab. The Quran only advises women to take a scarf and cover their chests. Islam, as well as many other religions, is blurred with cultural practices and most of those have been dictated by men. It is a patriarchal world.

As I said in my previous post, wearing the hijab as a choice is not always the case and simplifies the matter. An islamic woman living in the UK does not necessarily have the same choices as her western peers. Violence against women and girls in the Islamic, and also Hindu communities, is a strong possibility where they eschew tradition. Forced marriages, underage marriages, abduction and acid attacks do happen.

I have no objection to women wearing whatever they wish. Their body, their choice but is it?

There are feminist scholars studying the Quran who have decided to wear the hijab. You are entitled to your beliefs but so are they.
Islam has a long and interesting history and many women in it were educated and empowered before women in the west.

Dickens 👏👏👏

flappergirl

Glorianny

If women want to wear the hijab they should be allowed to. If they want to celebrate wearing it they should do. Women dictating to other women what they may wear is no more acceptable than men doing so. Linking the wearing with FGM which is not a muslim practice but a cultural one is ignorant and unacceptable.
One is mutilation. The other is simply choosing a different form of dress. Permit women that choice.

Glorianny, please read my post above. I know that FGM is a cultural practice but so is wearing the hijab. The Quran only advises women to take a scarf and cover their chests. Islam, as well as many other religions, is blurred with cultural practices and most of those have been dictated by men. It is a patriarchal world.

As I said in my previous post, wearing the hijab as a choice is not always the case and simplifies the matter. An islamic woman living in the UK does not necessarily have the same choices as her western peers. Violence against women and girls in the Islamic, and also Hindu communities, is a strong possibility where they eschew tradition. Forced marriages, underage marriages, abduction and acid attacks do happen.

I have no objection to women wearing whatever they wish. Their body, their choice but is it?

I have no objection to women wearing whatever they wish. Their body, their choice but is it?

If your parents dressed you in a hijab at age 4 or 5 onward - how much would your 'choice' in later life be dictated by cultural / family tradition as opposed to freedom of choice?

Patriarchy runs deep in religion - all religion as far as I can see.

When men accept the concept of modesty (yes, I know some do) and we have a day dedicated to an item of clothing they wear, then I'll applaud the hijab.

Glorianny one of my best girlfriends is Muslim, my nearest neighbours are Muslim.

My opinions are in no way related to ^colonialism*