The vote on the call for ceasefire in Gaza

Tell that to the US.

A vote for a ceasefire wouldn’t bring about a ceasefire

Well of course this is true BUT ( and it is a big but) if every rational Parliament, were to reflect the strong views of their electorate - in this case the vast majority of the British Public - and declare their support for a ceasefire and stop suppling arms or assistance to either side, then a descalation would surely follow.

In any situation where there is little you can do to help, it is still best to do that little bit that you can do in the hope that others will also do their "little bit" until the problem is resolved.

There is evidence that Starmer visited the Speaker and that the Speaker decided to break with parliamentary convention. The politicking behind the scenes stinks.

Thanks Westendgirl.

Why would anyone listen to a message from people who cant run their own parliament.
Oh yes they must have the answers to this complex situation, of course.

Evidence isn’t needed for some Lizzie seems the Speaker isn’t capable of making his own decisions, i believe him

I was wondering about the effectiveness of actions that perhaps should have a purely moral motive.
I can think of many instances when the prospect of gaining the desired outcome looked very bleak. Isn't it about the message we send out to the world about justice and rights?
The message we seem to be sending out just now is that our parliamentary system is useless.

* pressurised Hoyle to save the Labour Party from a very damaging vote.*

Do you have evidence for that allegation?

sorry, it should read Well said Lizzie Drip ,I too think they should hang their heads in shame.
Could we too ignore rumour and counter rumour. It smacks of the playground,

The more I think about it, Starmer has to go with Hoyle. They both broke Parliamentary rules last night. Starmer pressurised Hoyle to save the Labour Party from a very damaging vote.

Urmstongran
Our borders are so porous to be laughable. Not every incomer has our best interests at heart. The Manchester bomber proved that at the Ariana Grande concert where 22 people lost their lives attending a concert.
The usual misconceptions of the biased and discriminatory. The Manchester bomber was British born.

Well said , Lizzie Drip. now gossip, I too think they should hang their heads in shame

Very interesting Dinahmo.
Thank you for this.

49 MPs have signed a vote of no confidence in Speaker Hoyle.
If I were him I’d take Starmer down with me (or whoever it was in the Labour Party that ‘persuaded’ him a third choice was needed).
Name and shame them.

Anniebach

A vote for a ceasefire wouldn’t bring about a ceasefire

True Anniebach. Well said.

The behaviour of the MPs was appalling. The UK should demand an immediate ceasefire, without any conditions. Unfortunately Netanyahu will not take any notice.

During Reagan's presidency Israel attacked several sites in the Middle East. This is what Reagan did. Taken from an article on Responsible Statecraft.

"In addition to not vetoing UN resolutions, Reagan took several actions that many in Israel and the United States perceived as anti-Israel. For example, on June 7, 1981, less than six months after Reagan took office, Israel launched a surprise bombing raid on the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak, and, in so doing, violated the airspace of Saudi Arabia and Jordan. Reagan not only supported UNSC Resolution 487, which condemned the attack, but he also criticized the raid publicly and suspended the delivery of advanced F-16 fighter jets to Israel. Moreover, over the strident objections of Israel and the pro-Israel U.S. lobby groups, Reagan approved the sale of advanced reconnaissance aircraft (AWACS ) to Saudi Arabia, which Israel then viewed as a hostile state.

A year later, in August 1982, when Israeli forces advanced beyond southern Lebanon and began shelling the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) in Beirut, Reagan responded with an angry call to Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, demanding a halt to the operation.

In addition, during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon, Reagan intervened directly when Israel threatened to blow up the Commodore Hotel in downtown Beirut, which housed more than 100 western reporters. As David Ottaway, who was then the Washington Post Middle East correspondent and was in the building, pointed out, the Israeli defense minister did not like the media coverage the invasion was getting and wanted to close down the media center. "

The following is taken from the Guardian yesterday on the same subject:

"On 12 August, in what would later be dubbed “Black Thursday”, Israeli jets bombed Beirut for 11 consecutive hours, killing more than 100 people. That same day, a horrified Ronald Reagan placed a phone call to Menachem Begin, then Israeli prime minister, to “express his outrage” and condemn the “needless destruction and bloodshed”.

“Menachem, this is a holocaust,” Reagan told Begin.

Yes, an American leader used the H-word in conversation with an Israeli leader. Begin responded with sarcasm, telling the US president that “I think I know what a holocaust is.” Reagan, however, didn’t budge, insisting on the “imperative” for a ceasefire in Beirut.

Twenty minutes. That’s all the time it took for Begin to call back and tell the president he had ordered Sharon to stop the bombing. It was over. “I didn’t know I had that kind of power,” a surprised Reagan told an aide, upon putting down the phone"

I don't remember much about Reagan apart from the fact that he and Thatcher were close friends but he seems to have been stronger than Biden.

The US could stop this right now if it cut off arms supplies to Israel. Apparently all Israel's armaments come from the US.

But it would make people feel better thats the important thing after all. That was sarcasm just to be clear.
Instead it has made many of us think what is the point if voting. What an achievement.

A vote for a ceasefire wouldn’t bring about a ceasefire

Those supplying arms certainly don't want a ceasefire and will use their influence to keep it going so however much we shout for a ceasefire it's not going to happen.

Yes

After observing yesterdays debacle in the HoC, I actually feel ashamed of our politicians - on all sides. They used the terrible situation in Gaza as a platform for political point scoring - all of them! There was little difference between their various motions / amendments; it was just semantics. They were all actually calling for the same thing. Yet, they squabbled over ‘whose amendment is it going to be’ like children arguing over a toy. The HoC yesterday had the opportunity to come together yet they were unable & unwilling. Jess Phillips summed up the situation very well when she said ‘How can we expect people to lay down their arms, when we can’t even agree on laying down words’. Yesterday became all about political point scoring, on all sides, and the war in Gaza faded into the background. It was a bad day for UK democracy and I think MPs should hang their heads in shame today.

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

Yes, but what I saw was that every single MP who stood up bar 1 wanted an immediate ceasefire.

So regardless of the politicking, if only one motion had been put calling for a ceasefire, it would have passed overwhelmingly.

They were far too busy playing Billy big bu***cks than truly caring about the motion…

Yes I know - but they must agree that a ceasefire is right otherwise why stand up and say so?

Some of the speeches were heartrending - from all sides of the house. It would be cynical to the point of madness to think that those MPs were simply playing silly buggers.

I know that it would have no influence on Israel - but it would send a signal to the U.K. that parliament agrees with the population (77%) that the violence in Gaza should cease immediately.

Whitewavemark2

Yes, but what I saw was that every single MP who stood up bar 1 wanted an immediate ceasefire.

So regardless of the politicking, if only one motion had been put calling for a ceasefire, it would have passed overwhelmingly.

They were far too busy playing Billy big bu***cks than truly caring about the motion…

I am concerned t about the numerous rumours/reports circulating that Mr. Starmer aided and abetted by Sue Grey put pressure on The Speaker for dubious reasons (saving the face of the Labour Party /hiding the divisions)

It has not helped my faith in politics nor helped me with the Keir Starmer is one of the good guys rhetoric being trotted out by all opposing the current government.