Bring Shamima Begum Home!

The Manchester arena bomber was known to relevant agencies
I’ve no confidence it’s possible to use surveillance to prevent determined terrorists from acting

No do not bring Shemima home.
She will become a “ poster girl “ for the Islamic cause.
She has done some heinous things, there is possibly a lot more than we will ever know to this case.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Spuddy - I’ve reported your post. As yiu know, it breaches guidelines
Annie’s post has led to a wide ranging debate. No need for you to be offensive

Sago

No do not bring Shemima home.
She will become a “ poster girl “ for the Islamic cause.
She has done some heinous things, there is possibly a lot more than we will ever know to this case.

Agree 100%👏👏

Opal, how on earth can you compare SB with the girls in Rochdale!? What planet are you on ?
I fully invited the emotions you have regarding a vulnerable 15 year old who was brainwashed into joining a terrorist organization. However.........
we live in a very dangerous world and SB is no longer that 15 year old. She has witnessed and no doubt been instrumental in many atrocities. The powers that be have their reasons for refusing to have her back in the UK. The idea that she can be rehabilitated is at best naive and at worst dangerous.

Is there no room for forgiveness?
Perhaps that question should be asked of the relatives of David Haines, the Scottish aid worker beheaded by ISIS or the parents of James Foley, the Americans journalist beheaded by ISIS, or the relatives of the numerous other victims beheaded by ISIS.
It is not for us to forgive, it is merely the job of the security services to decide if this woman is safe to return to Britain. Given that other British citizens have returned, we have to conclude that no, she is not safe to return.

The government has information about her that is not in the public domain for obvious reasons. That information cannot be revealed. That is enough for me, along with what we do know.

Iam64

Spuddy - I’ve reported your post. As yiu know, it breaches guidelines
Annie’s post has led to a wide ranging debate. No need for you to be offensive

I think Spuddy’s post should be deleted too. I appreciate feelings run high on this subject, but no need for such a vitriolic post.

Germanshepherdsmum

*MOnica*, it is impossible for all known or suspected terrorists to be kept under surveillance 24/7, for ever, as we have seen with unfortunate consequences. Good luck to you living next door to one.

Precisely this. Almost every terrorist attack I've read about in the news claims the perpetrator was known to authorities. An inquiry usually follows into "failures" by the police.

This doesn't seem to be the sole preserve of terrorists either. Whenever a child dies at the hands of its parents or a woman is killed by her husband, there have been numerous warnings brought to the attention of many agencies, including the police.

In spite of her being only 15 at the time she left, what really got to me was her attitude afterwards. She had no remorse whatsoever. Quite the opposite. Until she finally realised this would count against her, then she 'apparently' changed her attitude.
My gut feeling is that she should not be allowed back into this country.

Shamima's lack of remorse was shown when she was in a refugee camp domintae dand effectively run from inside by ISIS supporters.

Had she, in that situation shown any remorse, she would have been putting her life at risk. Her rejection of ISIS came when she was away from that threat. What would you do in that situation?

OMG I find myself agreeing with Jacob Rees Mogg! He thinks she shouldn't have been stripped of her citizenship! www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2024/02/26/jacob-rees-mogg-says-decision-to-strip-shamima-begum-of-uk-citizenship-is-racist-and-wrong/
I'm now seriously worried.

Glorianny

OMG I find myself agreeing with Jacob Rees Mogg! He thinks she shouldn't have been stripped of her citizenship! www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2024/02/26/jacob-rees-mogg-says-decision-to-strip-shamima-begum-of-uk-citizenship-is-racist-and-wrong/
I'm now seriously worried.

I find myself in the same position. It seems that many people on here can’t separate the citizenship issue from their concern about what exactly she has done. To my mind they are completely separate issues.

Welcome Glorianny to a world where it’s possible to agree with someone on some subjects when generally, you disagree.
It makes life interesting

Iam64

Welcome Glorianny to a world where it’s possible to agree with someone on some subjects when generally, you disagree.
It makes life interesting

I already knew that but thanks for the welcome.
But this is Jacob Rees Mogg, darling of the right wing. They won't like him for it.

Whatever we think, whether it is right or wrong, I thought the issue was the unanimous decision of the Court of Appeal: that it was legal.

Sago

No do not bring Shemima home.
She will become a “ poster girl “ for the Islamic cause.
She has done some heinous things, there is possibly a lot more than we will ever know to this case.

Agree with this Sago, and I disagree with Jacob Rees Mogg to my relief.

It was Callistemon. Jacob Rees Mogg is entitled to his opinion, the same as we all are, but he’s neither a lawyer nor a judge. Three judges made this decision unanimously.

Callistemon21

Whatever we think, whether it is right or wrong, I thought the issue was the unanimous decision of the Court of Appeal: that it was legal.

I should qualify that:

Whatever we think, whether it is morally right or wrong, I thought the issue was the unanimous decision of the Court of Appeal: that it was legal.

Yes

I do wonder though isn't it a bit imperialistic to think that our interpretation of the law overrules the country which originated the law?
Bangladesh says SB does not and cannot have citizenship according to their law.
The UK says she can, because if she doesn't have Bangladeshi citizenship, by us removing her UK citizenship she becomes stateless, and that's a breach of International law.
Can anyone imagine another country granting someone UK citizenship and us agreeing to it?

Nobody granted SB citizenship of Bangladesh. It was said that she was eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship. They don’t want her. Unsurprisingly.

maddyone

Nobody granted SB citizenship of Bangladesh. It was said that she was eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship. They don’t want her. Unsurprisingly.

The point is that she had Bangladeshi citizenship at the time her UK citizenship was revoked. That is why it was legal; it would have been illegal otherwise as it would have made her stateless.

She had to apply to continue her Bangladeshi citizenship by the age of 21 otherwise that would lapse, which it did.
Hence she is now stateless.

It is not illegal but it is a moral dilemma.

Is it because she already had Bangladeshi citizenship on account of her parents being Bangladeshi?
Whatever, the UK did not grant her Bangladeshi citizenship.