No wonder the Labour Party don’t want to state its policies.

There’s not much blue water any more between the Tories and Labour. No wonder voters feel disenfranchised!

Well, the most ironic thing about it all is that the idea that there is no money left is complete nonsense.

The state with a sovereign currency and little foreign debt (such as the UK) is able to create ass much money as it needs if the resources are available to buy.

The state creates money all the time. If it just taxed without creating any money there would soon be no money at all left in the economy.

The state spends first, then taxes to control inflation.

There are oceans of blue water between Labour and the conservatives

Iam64

There are oceans of blue water between Labour and the conservatives

IMO a huge ocean! I’m not sure why people have such a “downer” in Starmer. He has certainly made mistakes, he’s human, but with some people he’s damned if he does, dambed if he doesn’t and cursed if he sits on the fence.

Perhaps Labour voters should remember the catastrophic elected results under Corbyn, whom I also had no issue with as a person.

Surely Starmer, with his normal background and work ethic, is a safe pair of hands and exactly what we want?

Tory voters are scared Cossy because despite strenuous efforts to find them, there aren’t enough flies on Starmer so far. The only chance of victory for the Tories is to discredit Labour now, because they can’t win on their own merits, the voting public aren’t buying it.

Since the ideas about a windfall tax and cancelling non-dom status has been widely discussed by both parties over the last 5 years or more, at least, and there have been plenty in the Conservative party to support both matters, there is nothing particulalry 'Labour' about it. Just ideas whosetime ay have come.

IMO, the only real difference between the pre-election discussions at the end of 13 years of Labour and the pre-election discussions at the end of 14 years of Conservatives is that we now have the opportunity to be much more voluble about our feelings, views, accusations, etc.

Labour back then, was disastrous for us personally now, without any help from Covid or Brexit.
Conservatives have certainly been disastrous for my family.

Today, when I watched those being interviewed about George Galloway’s win in Rochdale I was reminded of a time when I was convinced that the person/party I voted for, in local or general elections was the best person or party for the job.

Now, who knows?

There will be the same accusations, excuses and blame, whoever gets in. It’s very depressing.

Mollygo

IMO, the only real difference between the pre-election discussions at the end of 13 years of Labour and the pre-election discussions at the end of 14 years of Conservatives is that we now have the opportunity to be much more voluble about our feelings, views, accusations, etc.

Labour back then, was disastrous for us personally now, without any help from Covid or Brexit.
Conservatives have certainly been disastrous for my family.

Today, when I watched those being interviewed about George Galloway’s win in Rochdale I was reminded of a time when I was convinced that the person/party I voted for, in local or general elections was the best person or party for the job.

Now, who knows?

There will be the same accusations, excuses and blame, whoever gets in. It’s very depressing.

I don’t understand what you mean Mollygo, why do you think that ‘ we now have the opportunity to be much more voluble about our feelings, views, accusations, etc.’ than we did when Labour lost power in 2010?

What do I mean by we now have the opportunity to be much more voluble about our feelings, views, accusations, etc.’ than we did when Labour lost power in 2010?

Were you on GN then? Oh no, GN didn’t start till 2011. Friends Reunited wasn’t really set up for discussing politics or the cost of living.
Twitter started earlier than that, and websites before that, I remember setting my first school website up years ago.

Back then, the use of social media to spread rumour, truth and rants about everything hadn't really taken off.
People were still -are still-saying that technology was beyond older people.

Facebook and Twitter were mainstream by 2010, and there are loads of opportunities for people to sound off on there. The other popular social media route was the comments on newspaper articles sections, which latterly seem to have been taken over by trolls, but which were alive with discussions then. I take your point regarding Gransnet, perhaps there wasn’t a specific platform for older people to express their views, but Mumsnet was certainly alive and kicking and there was a lot of politics chat on here too.
I’d imagine that people who are active on social media now probably were in 2010, but maybe there are those for whom Gransnet is the only social media they use?

Both my dear late father and late grandfather wrote regularly into newspapers and regularly had their letters published on the readers oage. My grandfather also regularly wrote to his MP and the PM.

I am one such person who uses no social media other than GN, Casdon. Maybe I’m alone, who knows?

Cossy - my favourite letter from my lovely husband, to the Guardian involved Ian Botham’s suspension in 1986 after he admitted having smoked cannabis. ‘I too am Spartacus” said mr i .

Iam64

Cossy - my favourite letter from my lovely husband, to the Guardian involved Ian Botham’s suspension in 1986 after he admitted having smoked cannabis. ‘I too am Spartacus” said mr i .

I love that!

That’s funny Iam64, my husband used to write to the Telegraph about cricket quite regularly. I wasn’t happy at all with him reading the Telegraph but apparently it carried the best cricket and rugby coverage!

Writing to newspapers. Yes, been there, done that, but that’s still not the same as the impact that the internet has now.
There are loads of opportunities to post on Facebook and X, but the number of people using those and other media/social media has increased exponentially, with more people contributing more volubly and reaching a wider audience.
Even leaks to the press, which have been around for around 70 years are now more frequent, spread faster and receive more comments from a wider public than letters to newspapers allowed.

You’re right that social media has a greater influence than it did in 2010, certainly more so than newspapers do now. Political satire has been around in one form or another for centuries though, and people have always used the means available to them to talk about and critique politicians. Have I got News for You, Spitting Image, and my favourite, Drop the Dead Donkey are/were pretty mainstream. So there’s a lot of information out there for those who want it, I actually think the biggest problem is that millions just aren’t interested at all - maybe it was more fun to chat to your mates down the pub and form your views that way.

It seems to be a truth that many people younger than our demographic don’t read newspapers, watch tv news or listen to radio 4. I find this staggering but it seems they get their news from social media,
GSM only does gransnet. I do facepack and occasionally mumsnet.

Iam64

It seems to be a truth that many people younger than our demographic don’t read newspapers, watch tv news or listen to radio 4. I find this staggering but it seems they get their news from social media,
GSM only does gransnet. I do facepack and occasionally mumsnet.

They don’t actually need to though do they? Aside from the social media sites, tik-tok and Utube etc, there are serious podcasts, BBC and any number of other news sites, all our own and other countries newspapers are all digital and then there’s Mr Google etc. you can get well balanced and current news and current affairs all online.

Casdon

I too love Have I got News for You, but my very favourite was Mock the Week!

A newspaper bringss you news and views on a far wider range of topics thaan one is likely self select when able to choose what you read on what media.

I have benefitted immensely by reading articles in newspapers on subjects tht intrinsically I have no interest in. I mean I have been known to read an occasional article in the sports section. A sunject I have absolutely no interest in, zero, zilch.

I would be highly unlikely to click on a sports story on any online media, and of course, as online services tailor what you gate to what is known to interest you, I am rarely ofered sports stories to read.

Iam64

It seems to be a truth that many people younger than our demographic don’t read newspapers, watch tv news or listen to radio 4. I find this staggering but it seems they get their news from social media,
GSM only does gransnet. I do facepack and occasionally mumsnet.

Many people on the GN demographic have also said they no longer buy newspapers, or even get them on line. Then there’s the
never ending dispute about the veracity of some newspapers.
What I was originally saying is that there are far more opportunities, used by far more people giving opportunity to spread truth, rumour, criticism or opinion than there used to be, back when I wrote to newspapers.
Did newspapers ever print ongoing discussions between those who wrote to them and those who wanted to discuss what the letter to the newspaper had said in the way we can now on social media?