Budget 2024

Just said on Sky News that Hunt had said his long term aim is to eliminate National Insurance altogether. By that does he mean he wants everyone (who can afford it) to have private medical insurance?

I thought this was an interesting report which is well worth reading worth reading. It was published last year.

From the Executive Summary (which is far too long to reproduce in full):

The NHS is in crisis. Elective waiting lists are at their highest ever levels. Every month record numbers of people – reaching the hundreds of thousands – wait more than four hours to be seen in A&E. People are struggling to get GP appointments; those who do and seek a referral are more likely than ever to see it rejected. NHS performance has become a major political problem for the government, with voters considering it the most important issue facing the country after the cost of living.1 Satisfaction with the NHS is at an all-time low. At the heart of this crisis is a productivity puzzle.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/2023-06/nhs-productivity-puzzle_0.pdf

In hospital a huge amount of time is spent chasing up results, trying to find beds, trying to discharge patients with suitable care packages. etc I had a blood test at my GPs on Tuesday morning, I looked on the NHS app this morning and my results are already there. No need for the surgery to contact me as they are fine. Good IT systems can save doctor time but they are not an instant fix as they take time to embed and be used effectively. After my recent hospital stay it took 8 hours to get my discharge notes and medication, a fellow patient (with whom I am still in contact) was ready to be discharged at lunchtime Tuesday and was still waiting for transport at 17.30 Wednesday.

Casdon

‘Reducing waste’ in the NHS would not resolve the chronic underfunding.

Nor supply the necessary staff! This week alone my best friend and I have both had next week pain clinic appointments cancelled and my husband his polyps procedure changed, all due to staff shortages!

Sarnia

Whitewavemark2

NHS funding - which comes high on the list of the majority of voter

Nothing extra - zero -

The IFS have warned Hunt of the disastrous result if he fails to provide the necessary funding.

I worked for the NHS for the last 17 years of my working life and the waste is appalling. If a private business was run the way the NHS is it would have gone bankrupt long ago. What it needs is an independent and thorough assessment from top to bottom. £m's are wasted in the current system. Constantly throwing money at it is useless and unsustainable.

What kind of things would you suggest?

Of course, nobody should be throwing money away, but there's also a saying about throwing babies out with the bathwater.

‘Reducing waste’ in the NHS would not resolve the chronic underfunding.

Whitewavemark2

NHS funding - which comes high on the list of the majority of voter

Nothing extra - zero -

The IFS have warned Hunt of the disastrous result if he fails to provide the necessary funding.

I worked for the NHS for the last 17 years of my working life and the waste is appalling. If a private business was run the way the NHS is it would have gone bankrupt long ago. What it needs is an independent and thorough assessment from top to bottom. £m's are wasted in the current system. Constantly throwing money at it is useless and unsustainable.

winterwhite

Thank you, Tin Soldier. I’m very sorry to hear about your brother Charlie.

Pie in the sky sounds right for much of this because the necessary initial spend will prob not happen. The NHS is now so vast and cumbersome that it’s imposs for it to move easily and take advantage of innovations. This has been the result of successive secs of state wanting to make their mark.

How true. I’m fortunate in that I havnt been to hospital many times.
But last year I had 2 ECGs at my surgery. Because of what they saw I was sent straight to the hospital.
In the side room I was all wired up again I asked the Dr what she was doing. She replied, an ECG. I told her I’d had 2 done earlier at my surgery and why can’t you look at those results.
Her answer, and it was obvious that she was just as frustrated as I was, was we haven’t got the technology to do that 🤦🏼‍♀️

I loved David Mellors face and quote.
He was asked by the presenter if the 2p will make a difference in the coming election.
In his dead pan face he just sad no!!! Then added ^they ( the tories) have to understand the games up, the same as it was in 97.

Whitewavemark2

Loved this! Caption.

“Rishi Sunak strides past Larry on the way to listen to the budget”

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Loved this! Caption.

“Rishi Sunak strides past Larry on the way to listen to the budget”

Inthink the reference was to Hunt's brother Charlie, *winterwhite'.

I, too, am very dubious about the ability of the NHS to develop and implement AI in a short period of time.

This doesn't seem to me to be budget for serious growth. The few £billions which will possibly be fed into the economy by the tax cuts will a) probably be used to pay down debt, rather than consume more and b) is unlikely to put enough spending into the economy to boost businesses or to attract private investment.

A big programme of state investment would be much more effective. Instead we have the ludicrous proposal that public services, already cut to the bone, are going to be able to make 'efficiency' savings.

And Labour too terrified of the RW media to commit to a bold programme of state investment. The future looks dim..

GrannyGravy13

I do find it odd that on another thread there was an overwhelming number of posters advocating for higher taxes, and now we have complaints about posters moving into the tax bracket…

I think actually the tax point was some of us said we’d rather have no tax cuts or pay slightly more for improved public services.

Thank you, Tin Soldier. I’m very sorry to hear about your brother Charlie.

Pie in the sky sounds right for much of this because the necessary initial spend will prob not happen. The NHS is now so vast and cumbersome that it’s imposs for it to move easily and take advantage of innovations. This has been the result of successive secs of state wanting to make their mark.

TinSoldier

*winterwhite*: Question (I've got a bit behind): is the use of AI in hospitals and care homes really ready to roll out now, without investment that will wipe out the economies? Imposing it on the care sector without robust testing would just make bad worse. When are the savings predicted for?

This is what Hunt said:

We will slash the 13 million hours lost by doctors and nurses every year to outdated IT systems.

We will use AI to cut down and potentially cut in half form filling by doctors.

We will digitise operating theatre processes allowing the same number of consultants to do an extra 200,000 operations a year.

We will fund improvements to help doctors read MRI and CT scans more accurately and quickly, speeding up results for 130,000 patients every year and saving thousands of lives –something I know would have delighted my brother Charlie who I recently lost to cancer.

We will improve the NHS app so that it can be used to confirm and modify all appointments, reducing up to half a million missed appointments annually and improving patient choice.

We will set up a new NHS staff app to make it easier to roster electronically and end the use of expensive off-framework agencies.

And as a result of this funding, all hospitals will use electronic patient records, making the NHS the largest digitally integrated healthcare system in the world.

Today’s announcement doubles the amount the NHS is investing on digital transformation over three years.

The BBC is reporting that the Treasury is hoping that the proposed technological reforms will deliver as much as £1.8bn worth of benefits to public sector productivity by 2029.

Oh for goodness sakes, before I retired 12 years ago we were using electronic rostering, bloody awful it was too, especially if you needed to change with someone. We were also into electronic notes, not all done, but on the way.
The man is a fool, no experience of anything.

Absolutely Dinahmo

DiamondLily

Susie42

The pension increase next month will probably drag me and thousands of others into paying tax on their state pension. I’m just glad that interest rates on my savings have increased but I feel sorry and angry for those who only have their state pension and are not eligible for pension credits.

I’m already over the threshold on my state pension because of previously paid SERPS, so I get clobbered for tax on my private pensions. Thankfully, the interest rates on my savings prop it all up.

You did get tax relief on your private pension premiums when paid.

I've watched it, thanks. I could have a rant along with that chap on the film.

Re the AI. I agree with you. It's already being used in MRI diagnostics I believe but as for the rest, five years isn't enough. It might be enought to develop new systems, to design and write the code but testing, implementation and seamless integration are much much harder.

TinSoldier

Casdon

BBC reporting:

The overall level of taxation last year was the highest for more than 70 years.

And it is forecast to get higher.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) - the independent body which makes forecasts for the government - predicts that it will collect 37.1p of every pound generated in the economy in 2028-29.

That would be the highest level in 80 years.

That is total tax take including all personal and business taxes.

I know.
This is interesting, a view from the Telegraph.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGu2xjxqIr4

Casdon

BBC reporting:

The overall level of taxation last year was the highest for more than 70 years.

And it is forecast to get higher.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) - the independent body which makes forecasts for the government - predicts that it will collect 37.1p of every pound generated in the economy in 2028-29.

That would be the highest level in 80 years.

That is total tax take including all personal and business taxes.

That’s all pie in the sky dreams though TinSoldier, the only one that’s potentially achievable by 2029 is the reading of MRI and CT scans, provided there is adequate investment. Some of them are laughable - how do they think electronic rostering will end the use of off-framework agencies for example, do they think the current rostering is so bad that miracles can be worked, when there aren’t enough staff to cover the shifts? Forgive my cynicism, but they must think we were born yesterday.

TinSoldier

*winterwhite*: Question (I've got a bit behind): is the use of AI in hospitals and care homes really ready to roll out now, without investment that will wipe out the economies? Imposing it on the care sector without robust testing would just make bad worse. When are the savings predicted for?

This is what Hunt said:

We will slash the 13 million hours lost by doctors and nurses every year to outdated IT systems.

We will use AI to cut down and potentially cut in half form filling by doctors.

We will digitise operating theatre processes allowing the same number of consultants to do an extra 200,000 operations a year.

We will fund improvements to help doctors read MRI and CT scans more accurately and quickly, speeding up results for 130,000 patients every year and saving thousands of lives –something I know would have delighted my brother Charlie who I recently lost to cancer.

We will improve the NHS app so that it can be used to confirm and modify all appointments, reducing up to half a million missed appointments annually and improving patient choice.

We will set up a new NHS staff app to make it easier to roster electronically and end the use of expensive off-framework agencies.

And as a result of this funding, all hospitals will use electronic patient records, making the NHS the largest digitally integrated healthcare system in the world.

Today’s announcement doubles the amount the NHS is investing on digital transformation over three years.

The BBC is reporting that the Treasury is hoping that the proposed technological reforms will deliver as much as £1.8bn worth of benefits to public sector productivity by 2029.

The NHS computer systems have cost billions across the years and still don’t work! Ditto many of the DWP systems! I’ll be interested to see what happens!

Germanshepherdsmum

They will argue that the economic situation has improved, Cossy - and of course they will be courting votes. The chancellor has today extended measures which were due to come to an end and he can, if it is fiscally responsible in the autumn, end the freeze or bring forward the date on which it is scheduled to end.

Yes, I guess that makes sense politically

winterwhite: Question (I've got a bit behind): is the use of AI in hospitals and care homes really ready to roll out now, without investment that will wipe out the economies? Imposing it on the care sector without robust testing would just make bad worse. When are the savings predicted for?

This is what Hunt said:

We will slash the 13 million hours lost by doctors and nurses every year to outdated IT systems.

We will use AI to cut down and potentially cut in half form filling by doctors.

We will digitise operating theatre processes allowing the same number of consultants to do an extra 200,000 operations a year.

We will fund improvements to help doctors read MRI and CT scans more accurately and quickly, speeding up results for 130,000 patients every year and saving thousands of lives –something I know would have delighted my brother Charlie who I recently lost to cancer.

We will improve the NHS app so that it can be used to confirm and modify all appointments, reducing up to half a million missed appointments annually and improving patient choice.

We will set up a new NHS staff app to make it easier to roster electronically and end the use of expensive off-framework agencies.

And as a result of this funding, all hospitals will use electronic patient records, making the NHS the largest digitally integrated healthcare system in the world.

Today’s announcement doubles the amount the NHS is investing on digital transformation over three years.

The BBC is reporting that the Treasury is hoping that the proposed technological reforms will deliver as much as £1.8bn worth of benefits to public sector productivity by 2029.

HousePlantQueen

GrannyGravy13

I think the behaviour of the opposition parties is more akin to a pantomime than the H of P.

To be fair, the noise was coming from all sides of the house, those supporting the Chancellor were making as much noise as those who were not. I agree that it was a circus though

We weren't there but the Deputy Speaker was and she seemed to be remonstrating more with Opposition Members, in particular a Mr Perkins.

Stupid lot, it made it difficult to listen.