The potential of no longer paying National Insurance.

If NI is phased out or replaced by a private scheme it will have to be replaced by taxing the wealthy, not income tax some kind of tax on assets. We now have a much smaller proportion of the population working AI is likely to make that worse, NI is inadequate already.

I don’t think the Labour Party are against that sort of change, but it’s not just going to hit the super rich

NI is like Vehicle Tax, neither are strictly applied to what they were originally intended for. If the Vehicle tax was still intended for roadbuilding/maintenance electric cars, being a lot heavier than petrol/diesel would be heavily penalised onstead of having reduced vehicle tax.

Mae exactly back door established to make us pay for private health care and dentistry
It’s what the Tories have worked for during their long reign

Hear hear

to focused 1 - this is not about the changing of the age for the state pension but the lack of notice. For the majority of women there was sufficient notice but there is a small minority that had just a few months notice.

National insurance contributions by the individual are considered to pay statutory sick pay, ,maternity pay and state pension. I was told I had not got enough contributions for a full state pension and had to buy missing contributions. - so is the intention to stop paying all of these benefits in the future ?

I can imagine the current government shower moving to scrap NI and making it mandatory to take out private health insurance which, as we all know, is a Russian Roulette approach to whether or not you get appropriate treatment: or will the insurance provider simply refuse to pay up citing your medical condition as "pre-existing", an all purpose excuse for taking your premiums in return for..........precisely nothing. And it's legal.

Tax burden is at its highest in decades! The scrapping of NI, while I think it’s a good idea, is just a way for the government to distract us from that and many other issues which are equally pressing. That being said, I don’t actually trust ANY political party to work for the good of the majority anymore. All have axes to grind over their own obsessions and try to manipulate the voters with pretty promises like the latest thoughts on NI. What we REALLY need is a determined and visionary leader to pull us back from the brink. There’s not a single one on the horizon and the latest attempted enticements from the government are simply not going to improve life for the foreseeable future.

Casdon
Apologies, I thought I’d heard it on a news programme, but I just checked online and can’t find anything about it. I must have misheard or imagined it.
I truly hope KS does want to keep NI because if it is got rid of, I think that is the first step to means tested state pensions, and I believe that those who pay in taxes and/or NI should be able to claim a state pension, even though it’s very small and one of the worst in the first world I think.

Just waiting for the WASPI outcome of those that were cheated at pension age . April 2024 is next hearing .

maddyone

It’s not just this government, Labour are also signed up to getting rid of NI. Both parties want to ditch the payment of state pensions and make them means tested.

Where have you got the information about Labour ditching the payment of state pensions and making them means tested from maddyone, I can’t find anything saying that is their policy?

Not necessarily - and it’s not going to happen any time soon.

Has nobody considered the fact that, if NI, that no one over retirement age pays, goes and those levies are subsumed into general taxation, increasing all our taxes to cover it, then most pensioners will magically have to pay the equivalent of NI for the rest of our lives - crafty!

I've always felt that having paid NI all my adult life it allows me the luxury of reaping the benefit of a SP and NHS care - to my mind, paying it forms part of the contract I have with the state for these services.

Didn't you feel that the contract had rather been broken when the pension age was increased by 6 or 7 years? If you'd had a pension with any other supplier, this would not been allowed to happen.

I'd like to see the alternative of not having National Insurance contributions. Call me cynical but I'm not sure anybody will be a real winner in that scenario!

It’s not just this government, Labour are also signed up to getting rid of NI. Both parties want to ditch the payment of state pensions and make them means tested.

I've always felt that having paid NI all my adult life it allows me the luxury of reaping the benefit of a SP and NHS care - to my mind, paying it forms part of the contract I have with the state for these services. I think I'd like to see taxation simplified, and getting rid of NI and blending it into general taxation seems an obvious way of doing it. However, I really don't trust this government and fear that future generations will find themselves with no arguments to maintain this right unless their tax payments are ring-fenced in some way. Scary looking to the future with such a low level of trust in government - the Tory party has undermined so many of our institutions and attacked so many of our rights and freedoms that I'd now argue to keep the stupid NI just as a way of ensuring we have some, however flimsy, formal acknowledgement of our rights to basic services like health, pensions, welfare etc. I know it's never been ring-fenced but that's up to the government and the treasury, they should be able to manage the publics money for the benefit of the people of the country.

greenlady102

What hasn't been said here is the amount of administrative money this would save both the government and employers. Yes money would have to come from elsewhere but a single stream tax scheme would be much easier and cheaper to administer.

Hardly a saving of admin costs for employers. These days NIC is calculated as part of the same programme as calculates income tax due on all emoluments.

What hasn't been said here is the amount of administrative money this would save both the government and employers. Yes money would have to come from elsewhere but a single stream tax scheme would be much easier and cheaper to administer.

I agree with you HelterSkelter. The system needs a massive overhaul and it shouldn't be left to political parties to score points. It needs to long-term and cross party.

NI has never gone into a sperate pot, it has always gone into the general taxation pot, because governments of all hues have chosen to run pensions on a 'pay as you go' basis rather than as a separate listed fun.

Banishing NI will have no effect on NHS. What worries me about banishing it for pensions is that pensions will be seen as 'benefits' and not as a right based on a life time of contributions.

I would like us to make clear contributions to a pensions fund (like sovereign wealth funds) built up and invested over the years, so that the 'pay as you go' element gradually disappears and our pension is a clear 'right' for which we have payed.

Agreed, HelterSkelter. I wouldn’t restrict payment to workers though - working people support everyone else, including those who can afford not to work. Everyone using the things a social fund would cover should contribute unless they are unable to do so because of illness or disability (or the need to care for someone ill or disabled). It could be managed so that contributions are paid ‘in kind’ rather than financially, but everyone should contribute.

I agree that young workers need help, growstuff. I still don’t see it as a competition though. There are too few people supporting too many, and that will only get worse. Something has to give, and encouraging a race between old and young to see who gets to the bottom first is ignoring the fact that wealth and opportunities are unevenly distributed and talent is wasted. The system does need a shake up, and we need difficult but honest conversations about who should pay for what, with carrots and sticks to ensure that everyone pulls their weight when they can, so we can all take a back seat when we need to.

There's too much complication in operating National Insurance. Endless NI codes and at the end it's not ringfenced anyway just goes into the pot.
I would love to see the back of it and a Social Fund Tax devised which would cover state pension, basic sick pay. social care, and medical inc dental card. And we all pay it at varying levels. Those on a higher tax rate pay a higher Social Fund. Those on lower earnings pay less. But it would have to be ring fenced so that we all know what our payments go towards. And should include pension age people. Every adult but varying amounts and deducted as part of tax but hived off and show as a Social Fund deduction.

Private or company ension contributions should only have a set tax relief. The same for all earners.
The state needs a massive shake up and it will take years and should be a cross party exercise.

I expect Hunt does realise that the Conservatives are likely to lose the next election, so he can say/do what he likes. However, if he wants to make a last ditch attempt to woo voters, he's right to target young working families, who are bearing the brunt of the cost of living increases. Income tax, NI and student loan repayments (if they have them) take a massive chunk of gross income. Not only that, but childcare costs are through the roof, as are rents and if they're not renting, their mortgages are likely to have risen. Polls show consistently that anybody under about 45 is unlikely to vote Conservative and I can't say I blame them.

I guess if the money many pensioners are paying to get operations such as joint replacements is factored in, their losses would be even higher.

Don’t do what we do here- a mixture of private and public health. It’s not the best , it either costs a fair bit but is quick( you have to pay the ‘gap’ between what the insurance companies refund and the balance) or you have to wait forever for treatment. Worst of both worlds really. The Docs are very skilled but there is a shortage. We poach from all over, including the UK, because the pay is pretty good.