Arrests at a funeral directors in Hull.

Germanshepherdsmum

I may be wrong but I don’t think familial DNA testing provides conclusive evidence of identity, just that the people concerned were related. In a case like this the evidence of identity has to be presented beyond reasonable doubt.

Yes.

In any case, relatives may well have got rid of anything belonging to the deceased that could have provided valuable, usable DNA as some bodies are years old. ☹

I may be wrong but I don’t think familial DNA testing provides conclusive evidence of identity, just that the people concerned were related. In a case like this the evidence of identity has to be presented beyond reasonable doubt.

There may not be any relative close enough to test.
And, if tests are inconclusive or not conclusive for any reason, it could cause even more distress for the deceased's family.

Germanshepherdsmum

Criminal charges have been brought so positive identification of the bodies is important. DNA should be resorted to only if physical identification is not possible.

However upsetting, people might want to ensure that it is their dead relative and make sure they have a decent burial or cremation at last.

Besides which, forensic DNA testing costs quite a lot of money, unlike some of the tests offered by genealogy sites.

Criminal charges have been brought so positive identification of the bodies is important. DNA should be resorted to only if physical identification is not possible.

I do not understand why relatives should need to see deceased relatives to identify them. It should be quite possible to do itthrough DNA testing.

In many cases families will still have toothbrushes, hair brushes, worn and unwashed clothing that samples can be taken from for exact matches, and failing that comparing it with samples from close relatives.

Another distressing aspect for the poor families is that they are having to identify the bodies of their loved ones. Just truly dreadful.

GrauntyHelen

It seems to me (professional in the sector) that people have paid for cremation been told cremation has taken place but the bodies of the deceased were still in the premises

That's what I think, too.
It's just terrible: those poor families.

I’m guessing they took the cash for the cremations but kept the bodies, giving relatives ashes from their fireplace.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-68529604

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www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/legacy-independent-funeral-directors-two-people-arrested-as-34-bodies-removed-from-yorkshire-funeral-directors-by-police-4549803

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news.sky.com/story/bodies-moved-from-funeral-director-by-police-in-hull-after-concerns-raised-13091521

Oh dear. Those poor families. And to have jewellery made out of a loved ones ashes only to discover his body was still in their freezer! And had been there since July 2023?

We do know from newspaper reports that that has happened in one case so it’s unlikely to be a one-off given the number of bodies removed.

It seems to me (professional in the sector) that people have paid for cremation been told cremation has taken place but the bodies of the deceased were still in the premises

I read a story of a family having supposedly had jewellery made up from a family member's ashes but they were now being asked to go to identify the family member's remains as he had not in fact been cremated. Truly dreadful if true.

Hi, I remember years ago. This lady told me that her friend was at a funeral and her little boy was getting bored outside. Whilst people stood and talked.. He decided to around the back of the funeral place. There he saw his grandad been removed from his coffin and placed into a box. He said the car drove off with the coffin.. The box with his grandad in was taken in the back door.
He ran to tell his family and they went no, you didn't see that. Are you Sure.. He couldn't get anyone to believe him. So he asked the guy that was stood by the funeral car. And he said we some times recycle coffins.. Little Harry didn't know what he ment.. They never could prove this happened. Because the child was too young. Thinking he'd made it all up..

* father and brother.

Yes, the link which lemsip last posted mentioned a woman who had to arrange the funerals of her father brother who died within days of one another, and only this company would help her. They also showed patience whilst she awaited a grant from the DWP. The premises of which photographs have been posted by newspapers seem to be in a very run down area which better off people would likely shun.

This is indeed an increasingly distressing story, and as GSM and others have said, we have to take care with what we post, but for what it is worth, I suspect this is more a case of a business getting out of hand, being unrealistic in what they promise people (who can likely ill afford other funeral services), and it spiralling. More a case of a badly run business out of misguided efforts to help people than any malicious intent, but of course, this is only my opinion based on news reports. Dreadfully upsetting for the families.

It appears that the company may have had financial difficulties from time to time as accounts were filed late, resulting in threats from Companies House that it would be struck off the register. I have not read or heard of crematoria refusing to deal with them. What MOnica suggests is plausible, but in the absence of confirmation of the facts it is speculation.

A close family member works at a crematorium, and I can assure anyone who is worried that the ashes they receive back aren't those of their loved ones, this isn't possible, as the whole process is closely monitored and the deceased person's body tracked from start to finish. At 'his' crem at least (which is part of a nation-wide company) it is possible to witness the actual cremation, if you have any doubts or want to really see your loved one to the final end.
Obviously I can't speak for whatever has happened with the particular funeral business in the media at the moment.

i think the problem was that this company had built up debts and was not paying the bills, so crematoria were no longer prepared to accept new referrals from them until previous bills had been paid.

This meant they had to keep the bodie on their premises until they could afford to get them cremated and I would imagine that was a bit hit and miss and, as what so often happens, when, compamies have a problem and try juggling balls (so to speak) to try to keep everything running is that sooner or later they fail to catch one of the balls and the whole lot bounce all over the room.

The families paying for the service at the undertakers chapel/funeral room had no way of knowing that their loved one's remains were not being cremated and i do wonder what the ashes really were.

Crematoria grind ashes into very fine mix and it would not be difficult to create convincing cremation ashes from all other kinds of ashes - wood, (animal) bones, coal or coke. Burnt in a stove and ground finely, they would probably be indistinguishable.

PamQS

I haven’t been able to work out what potential crime the police are looking into, and best not to speculate, as GSmum says above. It must be very distressing for the families of the deceased.

The latest link posted by lemsip talks of a woman who thought her husband had been cremated, but his body has been found in a freezer at the funeral home. A total of 35 bodies have been removed and are being identified. The charges are preventing the lawful and decent burial of a body and fraud. No speculation required.

I went to make a last visit to my parents when they were in their coffins, and we had an attended funeral the following day in each case. I would never have wanted an unattended funeral anyway, it was my way of celebrating their lives and a way to say goodbye alongside other family members who also loved them.

I haven’t been able to work out what potential crime the police are looking into, and best not to speculate, as GSmum says above. It must be very distressing for the families of the deceased.

There are so many adverts for unattended cremations. Send the bodies through on a conveyor belt and return a pot of ashes, all done on the cheap. A charter for unscrupulous businesses.

I am so glad that the only funerals I have known have been attended, with a service followed by cremation and the labelled ashes returned

This is devastating news for many