Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

Anniebach

Why oh why are the alleged victims always women and children, are the men away fighting for Hamas ?

Because women and children are the most vulnerable and are suffering more. This report from November. Conditions will have rapidly deteriorated and more will have died.
www.who.int/news/item/03-11-2023-women-and-newborns-bearing-the-brunt-of-the-conflict-in-gaza-un-agencies-warn

Who gives figures to these sources ?

February sources claimed more civilian casualties in 4 months in Gaza than in Ukraine since the start of the war

There are a few “opinions” on this thread which are just that, “opinion”, with no links to any evidence from reputable sources to back up their claims. This comes across as preformed, unreliable and judgemental.

There are some informed posts which are backed up by reference to reputable sources.

I know nothing in such a conflict is simply black or white, but I know which posts I am more inclined to take seriously.

Why oh why are the alleged victims always women and children, are the men away fighting for Hamas ?

Katie59

Parsley3

Anniebach

Hamas government in Gaza, soooo many surgeons giving interviews of the alleged massacres, same surgeons paid by
Hamas

Alleged massacres? Don't you believe that people in Gaza are being killed?

The deaths are caused by Hamas using the population as human shields, they murdered their way into power and don’t care how many die for their cause, the destruction of Israel, men, women and children it’s all the same to them

What nonsense! Was it Hamas who ordered thousands of Palestinians to leave their homes and go to Khan Younis for safety? Then ordered them to leave that area and go to Rafah and began bombing Khan Younis. Then bombed Rafah?
Of course it wasn't. Israel has moved the population of Gaza around, bombed their homes and camps, shot people fleeing war zones, denied the people access to medical care and is now starving them. And these are innocent women and children.

I’m glad you understood foxie.
Apologies for typo in my previous post, I meant protectors not protesters.
My iPad has it’s own mind.
And I’m glad that we all understand that the three unfortunate British citizens were not at any time aid workers.
Sadly it was immaterial what they were, they died.

Parsley3

Anniebach

Hamas government in Gaza, soooo many surgeons giving interviews of the alleged massacres, same surgeons paid by
Hamas

Alleged massacres? Don't you believe that people in Gaza are being killed?

The deaths are caused by Hamas using the population as human shields, they murdered their way into power and don’t care how many die for their cause, the destruction of Israel, men, women and children it’s all the same to them

Anniebach

Hamas government in Gaza, soooo many surgeons giving interviews of the alleged massacres, same surgeons paid by
Hamas

Alleged massacres? Don't you believe that people in Gaza are being killed?

"foxie I understand what you have said, but you appear not to understand what I said."

no, Maddyone I understood you perfectly.

growstuff

Anniebach

Hamas government in Gaza, soooo many surgeons giving interviews of the alleged massacres, same surgeons paid by
Hamas

Well, who else would pay them? Presumably they work for the government and Hamas forms the legitimate government of Gaza.

Actually many of the International doctors are unpaid volunteers who give up holidays to go to places like Gaza to help develop the skills of permanent resident doctors. They will go under the auspices of one of the medical charities and often receive expenses but they need to be highly experienced with useful skills. The idea that they are all a mouthpiece for Hamas is ridiculous.

growstuff

Candelle

Could someone please tell me how Israel was to deal with these murdering terrorists? Ask them nicely to please go away?

No, they hammer out a deal, which means making concessions.

Yes on both sides, something the terrorist Hamas does not want to do. I'll never forget what their leaders said about Jewish people.

Candelle

Could someone please tell me how Israel was to deal with these murdering terrorists? Ask them nicely to please go away?

No, they hammer out a deal, which means making concessions.

A settlement with Hamas ! Resentment of Israel not Hamas who govern Gaza.

Candelle

Could someone please tell me how Israel was to deal with these murdering terrorists? Ask them nicely to please go away?

Are you suggesting that the people in the aid convoy were murdering terrorists?

To Whitewavemark2

I have several times posed one question which is never, ever answered.

I would be grateful if you, in particular, would kindly reply as to:

how Israel should deal with Hamas?

Anniebach

Hamas government in Gaza, soooo many surgeons giving interviews of the alleged massacres, same surgeons paid by
Hamas

Well, who else would pay them? Presumably they work for the government and Hamas forms the legitimate government of Gaza.

Anniebach

Israel stops defending itself, more Israeli babies are raped, more Israeli hostages taken.

Aww how sad but bravo Israel for listening to us and abiding by
Humanitarian Law.

This is what those constantly attacking Israel are saying

But Israel's actions won't stop that happening in the future. How can it? All it's doing is building up even more resentment in other countries, where undoubtedly Hamas (or maybe somebody with a different name) will regroup. The people with the brains behind Hamas no doubt left Gaza ages ago. They're probably in Iran, Qatar, Lebanon or wherever, planning the next move. If Israel loses US (and other countries') support, as a result of losing the moral high ground, it's setting itself up for decades of always watching its back. That's why Benny Gantz is calling for an election - there has to be some kind of negotiated settlement.

Hamas government in Gaza, soooo many surgeons giving interviews of the alleged massacres, same surgeons paid by
Hamas

maddyone

foxie I understand what you have said, but you appear not to understand what I said.
The three British ex military protesters were not aid workers! I agree, aid workers are often not paid at all, or paid very little. Just for clarification, the three British workers were not aid workers. They were ex military staff, employed to provide protection to people in dangerous situations. They were there to protect the aid workers from being taken hostage or killed by Hamas. None of them should have died, but the protectors were employed to provide protection in areas, not just Gaza, where it is dangerous. Sadly they were unable to protect the aid workers, or themselves.

Not just to provide protection but liaison with the IDF - who before the cars set off, the route is agreed and identification etc made clear to IDF.

The IDF will have access to full details of the aid workers.

Anniebach

It’s been accepted here by critics of Israel, Hamas will continue
to murder regardless of any move Israel.

Much talk of the Olympic Games this year, 52 years since Palastine terrorist group Black September murdered the Israeli
Olympic Team

Of course they will as will Hezbollah and others. Terrorists do not keep to the accepted rules.

foxie I understand what you have said, but you appear not to understand what I said.
The three British ex military protesters were not aid workers! I agree, aid workers are often not paid at all, or paid very little. Just for clarification, the three British workers were not aid workers. They were ex military staff, employed to provide protection to people in dangerous situations. They were there to protect the aid workers from being taken hostage or killed by Hamas. None of them should have died, but the protectors were employed to provide protection in areas, not just Gaza, where it is dangerous. Sadly they were unable to protect the aid workers, or themselves.

It’s been accepted here by critics of Israel, Hamas will continue
to murder regardless of any move Israel.

Much talk of the Olympic Games this year, 52 years since Palastine terrorist group Black September murdered the Israeli
Olympic Team

Could someone please tell me how Israel was to deal with these murdering terrorists? Ask them nicely to please go away?

First hand account from a Canadian doctor

Dr Fozia Alvi was making her rounds of the intensive care unit on her final day at the battered European public hospital in southern Gaza when she stopped next to two young arrivals with facial injuries and breathing tubes in their windpipes.

“I asked the nurse, what’s the history? She said that they were brought in a couple of hours ago. They had sniper shots to the brain. They were seven or eight years old,” she said.

The Canadian doctor’s heart sank. These were not the first children treated by Alvi who she was told were targeted by Israeli soldiers, and she knew the damage a single high-calibre bullet could do to a fragile young body.

“They were not able to talk, paraplegic. They were literally lying down as vegetables on those beds. They were not the only ones. I saw even small children with direct sniper shot wounds to the head as well as in the chest. They were not combatants, they were small children,” said Alvi.

Relief-web
For over a week now, the Israeli army has been conducting systematic and horrifying military operations inside and around Al-Shifa Medical Complex. These crimes include extrajudicial executions and deliberate killings of Palestinian civilians. The Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor field team has received identical testimonies about the killings and executions of Palestinian children between the ages of four and 16.

Some of the fatal shootings occurred during an Israeli army siege while the victims’ families were inside their homes; others occurred when the victims attempted to escape via routes that the Israeli army had designated as “safe” after forcibly evacuating them from their homes and places of residence.

UN report Nov 2023

In the Hamas-led October 7 attack on Israel, at least 33 children were killed, and Palestinian armed groups abducted an estimated 40 children as hostages.

In the face of mounting violations against children, international rights advocates recently called on UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres to immediately add Israeli forces, the al-Qassam Brigades (Hamas’ armed wing), and Islamic Jihad to his “list of shame,” rather than wait until his regular annual report next year. The “list of shame” names governments and nongovernmental armed groups responsible for grave violations against children in armed conflict, including killing and maiming, abduction, attacks on schools and hospitals, and denial of humanitarian access.

Guterres on November 6 said that “Gaza is becoming a graveyard for children.” In the occupied West Bank, Israeli security forces and settlers have killed an additional 53 Palestinian children since October 7.

Israeli airstrikes have hit schools, hospitals, and ambulances in Gaza, resulting in civilian casualties. At least 300 schools have been damaged and 183 teachers killed. The World Health Organization has reported that at least 553 people have been killed in 178 attacks on medical facilities in Gaza between October 7 and November 21, and that the majority of hospitals in Gaza are no longer functional.
Israel’s blockade of water, food, medical supplies, electricity and fuel, and denial of all but a trickle of humanitarian assistance into Gaza amounts to collective punishment of the civilian population that poses further grave risks to children”

Of course this report of 4+months ago means that far more children have died since then.

No-one involved with aid work gets paid enough to die for. International aid workers usually get paid, they are not normally volunteers, does this mean because they have made the choice to work in a dangerous situation their deaths are acceptable on the basis they knew the risk? I do know that people take holidays from their paid work to use their skills in dangerous places, they also know the risks but they do it anyway.