The new Rwanda Plan

Callistemon21

Katie59

zakouma66

Wow, an epert in most countries in Africa. Amazing that kind of knowledge.

No expert, but having travelled to 8 different countries and have friends in several I’m pretty familiar with how it works. In many the Police and Army are very high profile, roadblocks are routine but always friendly to me.
It’s not much different in any country, just respect their culture, get local knowledge, a guide if you’re solo and tip generously.

Responding to goady posts just encourages the goaders, Katie59

You are very polite. 🙂

I always try to be polite

Just how safe is the UK though if you are agitating against the government? Not many countries turn a blind eye to that. Certainly not the USA.

Katie59

zakouma66

Wow, an epert in most countries in Africa. Amazing that kind of knowledge.

No expert, but having travelled to 8 different countries and have friends in several I’m pretty familiar with how it works. In many the Police and Army are very high profile, roadblocks are routine but always friendly to me.
It’s not much different in any country, just respect their culture, get local knowledge, a guide if you’re solo and tip generously.

Responding to goady posts just encourages the goaders, Katie59

You are very polite. 🙂

zakouma66

Wow, an epert in most countries in Africa. Amazing that kind of knowledge.

No expert, but having travelled to 8 different countries and have friends in several I’m pretty familiar with how it works. In many the Police and Army are very high profile, roadblocks are routine but always friendly to me.
It’s not much different in any country, just respect their culture, get local knowledge, a guide if you’re solo and tip generously.

MaizieD

nanna8

Katie59

Rwanda is safe by African standards, Kigali is a modern city with a low crime rates and officials are less corrupt than most.
Rural areas are basic, traditional huts mud brick construction with an iron roof, not really different to other countries on the region.
The government is firmly in control to the extent that freedom of speech has its limits, I was part of a guided tour so no issues but you could travel freely, although I would take a guide to cope with local language and knowledge.

Rwanda want the money and are happy to be employed by the UK to do their dirty work.

Thanks Katie59: I had heard that it is actually a very pleasant place and not at all what some of us (me included) imagine. Probably safer than some parts of the UK by the sound of it. Which changes things to a certain extent.

I understand it's a pleasant place as long as you agree totally with the government.

I expect North Korea is too.

Wow, an epert in most countries in Africa. Amazing that kind of knowledge.

Like most countries in Africa agitating against the current government is risky not just by violence but jobs and healthcare can be not available, it’s very often tribal based

Paul Kagame was the leader of RPF which won the war after the genocide, stability and control comes before free speech.

They do, but not sure how relevant it is now?

The appalling civil war was in 1994 I'm sure we all remember
'By the time the Tutsi-led Rwandese Patriotic Front gained control of the country through a military offensive in early July, hundreds of thousands of Rwandans were dead and 2 million refugees (mainly Hutus) fled Rwanda, exacerbating what had already become a full-blown humanitarian crisis"

In Blairs time 2008 we saw the last of the genocide trials

"The trials continued over the next decade and a half, including the 2008 conviction of three former senior Rwandan defense and military officials for organizing the genocide."

Who was it talking about the UK bringing in conscription? They also have a record of war crimes, particularly under Blair’s leadership.

Thanks Wyllow. Also this from Margaret Owen, President, Widows for Peace through Democracy:

Some 53% of Rwandans are not in work. Far from finding a job, any deportee could be forced to join the Rwanda-backed armed groups and participate in the horrendous war crimes perpetrated in eastern DRC

And if you don't - you dare to disagree with the government -

www.ictj.org/latest-news/rwanda-accused-broad-campaign-repression-against-dissidents
"Rwanda accused of broad campaign of repression against dissidents"

and www.ictj.org/latest-news/rwanda-accused-broad-campaign-repression-against-dissidents

"The 115-page report—which covers the years since 2017—also accuses the government in Kigali of routinely abusing global judicial and police mechanisms, including the Interpol system, in its determination to return perceived enemies to Rwanda.

"HRW details multiple cases of harassment, arbitrary detention, torture, and sometimes the disappearance of relatives of suspected dissidents—tactics apparently adopted to persuade exiles to censor themselves or return home.

“The targeting of relatives is a particularly vicious form of control,” the report’s authors note. "

nanna8

Katie59

Rwanda is safe by African standards, Kigali is a modern city with a low crime rates and officials are less corrupt than most.
Rural areas are basic, traditional huts mud brick construction with an iron roof, not really different to other countries on the region.
The government is firmly in control to the extent that freedom of speech has its limits, I was part of a guided tour so no issues but you could travel freely, although I would take a guide to cope with local language and knowledge.

Rwanda want the money and are happy to be employed by the UK to do their dirty work.

Thanks Katie59: I had heard that it is actually a very pleasant place and not at all what some of us (me included) imagine. Probably safer than some parts of the UK by the sound of it. Which changes things to a certain extent.

I understand it's a pleasant place as long as you agree totally with the government.

Just think what could have been done with that amount of money! How many homes could have been built, teachers, doctors, immigration officers would have been employed etc etc. But no, let's try to buy votes by scapegoating asylum seekers and perhaps no one will notice what a mess the rest of the country is in. Pretty appalling

Precisely foxie!

Sarnia

The first failed asylum seeker has voluntarily gone to Rwanda. The UK have already paid over £220m for this scheme but have given this illegal immigrant £3000 when he wanted to go there anyway. Does this country have money to burn?

Just think what could have been done with that amount of money! How many homes could have been built, teachers, doctors, immigration officers would have been employed etc etc. But no, let's try to buy votes by scapegoating asylum seekers and perhaps no one will notice what a mess the rest of the country is in. Pretty appalling.

LizzieDrip

Does this country have money to burn?

Yep, apparently we do Sarniaconfused

Apparently so for immigrants, the indigenous population not so much.

Does this country have money to burn?

Yep, apparently we do Sarnia

The first failed asylum seeker has voluntarily gone to Rwanda. The UK have already paid over £220m for this scheme but have given this illegal immigrant £3000 when he wanted to go there anyway. Does this country have money to burn?

vegansrock

I can’t believe all the nasty comments about Germany and Ireland on here. So much petty nationalism.

Oh! I can believe it .

nanna8

Katie59

Rwanda is safe by African standards, Kigali is a modern city with a low crime rates and officials are less corrupt than most.
Rural areas are basic, traditional huts mud brick construction with an iron roof, not really different to other countries on the region.
The government is firmly in control to the extent that freedom of speech has its limits, I was part of a guided tour so no issues but you could travel freely, although I would take a guide to cope with local language and knowledge.

Rwanda want the money and are happy to be employed by the UK to do their dirty work.

Thanks Katie59: I had heard that it is actually a very pleasant place and not at all what some of us (me included) imagine. Probably safer than some parts of the UK by the sound of it. Which changes things to a certain extent.

So why aren't people emigrating in masses?

Ireland only have themselves to blame in my opinion, I hope more cross the soft border from NI, they wanted free movement, well be careful what you wish for.

I can’t believe all the nasty comments about Germany and Ireland on here. So much petty nationalism.

Katie59

Rwanda is safe by African standards, Kigali is a modern city with a low crime rates and officials are less corrupt than most.
Rural areas are basic, traditional huts mud brick construction with an iron roof, not really different to other countries on the region.
The government is firmly in control to the extent that freedom of speech has its limits, I was part of a guided tour so no issues but you could travel freely, although I would take a guide to cope with local language and knowledge.

Rwanda want the money and are happy to be employed by the UK to do their dirty work.

Thanks Katie59: I had heard that it is actually a very pleasant place and not at all what some of us (me included) imagine. Probably safer than some parts of the UK by the sound of it. Which changes things to a certain extent.

Primrose53

growstuff

Primrose53

growstuff

Primrose53

LizzieDrip

A border guard speaking on the news this morning confirmed this. Are you calling him a lier.

No Petra I’m not calling the border force guard a liar (correct spelling by the way) because I had not seen / heard / read this when I posed the question. I don’t watch GB news or read the Daily Fail Mail.

not nice to correct spelling LizzieDrip. You should know better.

Are you expecting a medal because you don’t read or watch certain news channels or papers? 🤣

I told you the other day I get my info from a Border Force senior official.

In that case, the official should be sacked. It is not permissible for a Border Force official to tittle tattle to anybody else, who might then spread the information elsewhere (as you have done Primrose53).

My daughter works in HR for the National Crime Agency. It's no secret what areas the NCA works in; it's on their website:

www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/what-we-do

It is not permissible for staff to discuss operational details with anybody. My daughter was subject to stringent security checks when she was appointed, as were her family (including me). Part of her job is to discipline people who overstep the mark. I don't know any more details than that because, of course, she's not allowed to discuss them.

This is so tiresome growstuff*. For the last time no CONFIDENTIAL information has been passed to me and I have not spread anything. No “operational details”. I think you are getting a bit carried away.

We have people on here all the time saying “my daughter/son/neighbour is a nurse/doctor/head teacher/police officer and they say ……… “

Casdon I know you started the thread but it was about the Rwanda Plan not all this deflection stuff.

It's still tittle tattle. If I were part of a conversation in which that kind of information were discussed, I'd report it to the appropriate authorities.

growstuff. TITTLE TATTLE ALERT!

Someone on a similar thread has had the audacity to tittle tattle about their daughter who works in the NHS. 🤣🤣 how did you miss that one?

Does it involve matters of national security?

I missed it because I don't spend my days glued to Gransnet.

If it involved giving away details which aren't in the public domain and I knew who it was, I'd report him/her, as well as your friend.

Katie59

zakouma66

Urmstongran

The people of Germany will regret Mutti's wilkommenskultur.
It's sounding as if the people of Ireland will regret it too. Still, it's a break from hating the English.
😁

What all the people? 84.7 million Germans? Amazing.

Germany has always had migrants, “gastarbieter” - guest workers, many Turkish who mostly returned home. Now the migrants are staying and they don’t like it.

Most Turkish workers stayed in Germany, despite not having citizenship or the right to vote. They lived mainly in Berlin before reunification because many West Germans didn't want to live there. Helmut Kohl tried to bribe the Turks to return to Turkey, but most of them stayed. For as long as I can remember, Turks have suffered discrimination in Germany - it's not a new thing.

What is new is the East German population, where current German nationalism originates. Many of the new immigrants were relocated to the East, where people still resent what many see as a take-over by West Germany. For years after reunification, for example, East German teachers were paid less than West German ones. Rents, particularly in Berlin, have shot up and East Germans lost their right to child-care and a guaranteed job for life. The transition to western capitalism hasn't been easy for some of them, so they particularly resent having to compete now with new immigrants, especially as Germany is in the doldrums economically.

Casdon

You’re welcome in the kitchen as long as you don’t leave the stuff piled up, piled up in the sink Callistemon21.

I'm good at loading the dishwasher 🙂
And reloading it properly when anyone else does it.