Changed my mind about voting for Reform uk

BevSec

Stella14, what is wrong with low taxes and spending as little public money as possible?

No NHS, No defence services, Poor and overcrowded schools, most young people priced out of going to university, no social housing, poorly maintained roads, ..........

I could go on and on.

Stella14, what is wrong with low taxes and spending as little public money as possible?

My point is,sweetie, that the NHS, which we were discussing, may well look for other ways to fund itself. What’s yours ?

And your point is???

Maybe you will go the way it is here. Hope not for everyone’s sake !. Either you take out private insurance at vast cost or they take it out of your taxes. The private insurance doesn’t cover half the stuff and you end up paying heaps anyway. People put off getting treatment because of it.

Dickens It wasn’t just the computer saying no but the receptionist said it in the most exaggerated way. I was surprised that anyone could say blood pressure in such an elongated way!
However by now it is completely beyond redemption and there’s no political party able to reform the NHS. So best stop using it as a political hot potato as it does have a life of its own. Unfortunately.

ronib

Seems to me that the problem with the NHS is that it has become a vast bureaucracy and patients are required to leave all thinking about treatment to the bureaucrats.
For example, it’s impossible to ask for add ons to blood tests so if a blood test is scheduled for x & y and a request for z appears, these requests must be submitted separately. So the patient becomes a pin cushion. This does not happen in Germany for example. It also costs more to employ two phlebotomists. Multiple this many times and it’s no wonder costs are rising. Nothing at all to do with Labour, Tories or Liberal Democrats but entirely down to the huge bureaucracy which is destroying our NHS.

Unfortunately, with mammoth organisations like the NHS, systems have to be put in place to manage them.

What appears to happen is that the systems become the dictators of the organisation - so anything that occurs spontaneously outside of the systems cannot be incorporated within them, and therefore a new process has to be started from scratch. Which is what is happening with the blood tests you mention.

In the end, everything has to fit the system, rather than the system servicing the needs of the organisation.

The "computer really does say NO".

For the first time in my life, I really have no idea who to vote for. The present lot are a shower and I don’t trust the Labour Party either. The trouble is that they are all career politicians with no idea of the real world outside the Westminster Bubble. I honestly wish there was a box for None of the Above. I think it would be the most popular choice.

There’s plenty of time to decide how to vote. You don’t have to vote for one of the main parties - you might like the look of what your independent candidate offers. At the end of the day, you want an MP who will help you if you have a problem. My local MP fits that bill - he’s a Conservative which fits with my views, but most importantly he’s an excellent constituency MP.

I have a decided not to vote. I can't vote Tory as the party ignores the stupid benefits system. I don't have child benefit but I don't agree that a household that earns £99,999 gets benefits yet another with one working parent has £60,000 gets no benefits. Not to be resolved for at least another 2 years. Labour has no real policy. I don't like Keir Starmer. I lived in an area where the Tory MP was replaced by a bone idle Lib Dem. So no faith in that party. Reform is very right wing. If there is a monster raving loony party, it maybe the best way

Nan0

Legal trail hunting following a scent laid previously with a designated route is not chasing an animal, its like drag hunting, and digging setts, dens, terriers are not allowed

I follow the hunt saboteurs that document what hunts really get up to . They often pretend to lay trails and then conveniently ‘find’ a fox . They are often caught breaking the laws . Blocking badger sets etc . People’s pets are often attacked and killed . Every year their own dogs are run over by cars and trains because they don’t have real control over them . Luckily, there is some progress as more hints are closing down . I would hate to see that change . More concerning are the far right ideology that would have us all go backwards in time . Dangerous . Do you want what has happened in the USA with book bans and women’s reproductive rights being taken away . That would be next .

I agree, it’s factually incorrect.

On Pierrepoint's resignation, two assistant executioners were promoted to lead executioner: Jock Stewart and Harry Allen. Over the next seven years they carried out the remaining thirty-four executions in the UK. On 13 August 1964 Allen hanged Gwynne Evans at Strangeways Prison in Manchester for the murder of John Alan West; at the same time, Stewart hanged Evans's accomplice, Peter Allen, at Walton Gaol in Liverpool. They were the last hangings in English legal history. (Wiki)

Surely the point here is that Pierrepoint was known for the sheer number of people he hung. The analogy is in the scale of the killing. Stewart and Allen lost their jobs as executioners.

TinSoldier

Just a remnder for people who don’t read whole threads:

In its manifesto under Agriculture, Reform UK says:

Protect Country sports. These increase investment in conservation of our environment. They boost rural jobs, communities and local economies.

www.reformparty.uk/our-contract-contents

Andy Knott CEO League Against Cruel Sports in 2022:

^We are often told that blood sports provide rural jobs. We didn’t keep capital punishment so that Albert Pierrepoint could keep his job as our last hangman, so why fret over those engaged in the industrial scale destruction of our wildlife? The blood sports industry tends to provide lowly paid, highly seasonal, temporary work. Hardly a picture of secure, sustainable, employment. Given that polling points to nearly nine out of ten of the public preferring to observe our wildlife rather than kill it, you might think there would be all manner of alternative opportunities to make a more generous and ethical living out of animals.^

What a dubious analogy Andy Knott chose to make as Albert Pierrepoint was not the last hangman. He resigned before the last hangings and so his job was never under threat.

ronib

growstuff no it isn’t possible to ask for an add on to blood tests in our surgery. The receptionist said no you can’t and the phlebotomist said the NHS is a bureaucracy and you should know better than to ask.
It’s but a very small example of the mindset and who knows what savings could be made as no one has the will to make them!

Well, I'm very glad those people don't work in my GP's surgery. It's nothing to do with the "NHS" has a whole - the issue is your surgery's staff and phlebotomist who shouldn't be anywhere near the public, if s/he comes out with stuff like that.

I'd not vote for them. However, if someone wants to vote for them that's fine by me

There is an ancient Native Indian proverb:

"Senseless killing of herd animals,
Senseless killing of animals with claws,
Senseless killing of the Wild Mustangs,
Senseless torturing of the 4 legged species,
And senseless polluting the agriculture sources of food with MSG insecticides and toxins,
With this in mind, man shall eat his money because there shall be no food sources left" ..

Of course, this is just the basics from memory ..

Just a remnder for people who don’t read whole threads:

In its manifesto under Agriculture, Reform UK says:

Protect Country sports. These increase investment in conservation of our environment. They boost rural jobs, communities and local economies.

www.reformparty.uk/our-contract-contents

Andy Knott CEO League Against Cruel Sports in 2022:

We are often told that blood sports provide rural jobs. We didn’t keep capital punishment so that Albert Pierrepoint could keep his job as our last hangman, so why fret over those engaged in the industrial scale destruction of our wildlife? The blood sports industry tends to provide lowly paid, highly seasonal, temporary work. Hardly a picture of secure, sustainable, employment. Given that polling points to nearly nine out of ten of the public preferring to observe our wildlife rather than kill it, you might think there would be all manner of alternative opportunities to make a more generous and ethical living out of animals.

Last general election I tried to read the manifestos but couldn't really understand a lot of it. I then read the bullet points and also did the survey to see what my views pointed me to. It was UKIP at the time and Green so I went and did research on both. I spoke to my Green candidate at length because I actually knew him. I asked him where the party was going to get all the funding to do all these wonderful GREEN things. He wouldn't give me an answer so I outright asked him are you going to increase taxation in some form or another. Again no direct answer. So I ruled both parties out. I voted for my MP rather than the party who just happened to be Conservative as he had helped me and some of my friends support one of our causes. Unfortunately he is standing down so will not be in the running this time. So I am back to square one as to who I will vote for. Probably no one in the end.

Vile party.

Vile people.

The bureaucracy and petty empire-building in the NHS is 'epic'. I know of junior doctors who have been told they could not have time off for their wedding, which they arranged and asked for 18 months in advance. That's one of the reasons I support the strikes - no-one is listening. Power is being misused.

I'd like to add a little info about hunting - some may think it irrelevant but I think it's interesting/important. The pro-hunt lobby call themselves the Countryside Alliance as if they are standing up for the traditional rights of rural-dwelling people. However, the great majority of 'country-dwellers' do NOT want hunting. They see how destructive and cruel it can be and how it serves the interests of the elite and wealthy. Some years ago in Gloucestershire the hunt ripped apart someone's pet cat. The hounds literally dragged it from the owner's arms. The case went to court, the judge was a hunt-supporter and there was, I believe, some paltry compensation - for the life-changing trauma of seeing a beloved pet killed that way. No sanctions for these b******s who are utter scum, in my opinion. The hounds are treated appallingly, too, given minor operations without anaesthesia. My husband has seen - and heard - this being done. When his old horse died he refused to donate it to the hunt, instead burying it himself on the estate he managed. This caused a bit of an outcry. Too many powerful people who have zero empathy and care only for their disgusting selves.

growstuff no it isn’t possible to ask for an add on to blood tests in our surgery. The receptionist said no you can’t and the phlebotomist said the NHS is a bureaucracy and you should know better than to ask.
It’s but a very small example of the mindset and who knows what savings could be made as no one has the will to make them!

Apart from their stand on animals, which is a good reason not to vote for them in itself, I would never vote for a party with such right wing views

I have no idea who to vote for. After the utter shambles of the last few years I struggle to understand why anyone would vote Tory. Labour are unconvincing, tepid, I do not trust Starmer and fear greater state control under Labour without any improvements that we need. I don't trust the Greens either, I feel 'green' beliefs have become a vehicle for the self-righteous virtue-signallers and that there should be more debate on things like climate change, not the quasi-religious fervour that seems to dominate. Someone said they 'don't know much about the LibDems' - maybe this is the time to find out more and give them a turn. The Coalition was ages ago, after all.

ronib

Seems to me that the problem with the NHS is that it has become a vast bureaucracy and patients are required to leave all thinking about treatment to the bureaucrats.
For example, it’s impossible to ask for add ons to blood tests so if a blood test is scheduled for x & y and a request for z appears, these requests must be submitted separately. So the patient becomes a pin cushion. This does not happen in Germany for example. It also costs more to employ two phlebotomists. Multiple this many times and it’s no wonder costs are rising. Nothing at all to do with Labour, Tories or Liberal Democrats but entirely down to the huge bureaucracy which is destroying our NHS.

Yes, it is possible to ask for an extra blood test. I have a full blood test at least every year. When I've booked the test with the GP, I've often asked for an extra one (eg folate or Vitamin B12), which aren't part of the usual "full bloods", but I've had them in the past and I can ask for them if I feel I might have symptoms of some deficiency or other.

TBH I doubt very much if duplication of phlebotomist time is having a huge effect on the NHS budget.

As much as I admire the NHS and the medical profession why should medical staff have a three year basic rate tax holiday? Does Reform think it will encourage an already exhausted junior doctor to work even longer hours?

Other professions work equally hard with different challenges.

One reason for the failure to meet housebuilding targets is shortage of skilled labour.

It’s been estimated the UK needs nearly a million new recruits in trades and construction over the next decade. At the same time demand is soaring, creating a perfect storm which threatens homeowners, businesses and the national economy.

A national shortage of skilled tradespeople is estimated to cost the UK £12bn a year and one third of skilled trades people are over 50 and will likely retire within the next ten years. Nearly half of UK homeowners have struggled to hire a tradesperson for their projects or repairs, with the top reasons cited being “no availability”.

www.itv.com/news/2024-02-15/help-we-need-a-builder-britains-skills-shortage

This is a measure that would see the economy grow but I don’t see Reform UK giving builders a tax holiday to address the housing crisis ...

... or teachers to address the shortages in education.

Reform’s proposals are popularist unfunded nonsense.