Is JK Rowling pushing the boundaries too far?

Galaxy

JKR seemed to be able to identify a number of transwomen, but she does have superpowers.

I can identify quite a few people who have had their pictures in the news Galaxy that doesn't require superpowers. If you can in everyday life is entirely another question.
If a misogynistic man would bother to is another.

Glorianny if only it was as easy as getting the National Federation of Women’s Institutes to give us a vote on the inclusion or otherwise of transwomen into the WI, but they did this undercover and refuse to give us a vote now.

The Women’s Institute Women’s Declaration has 3,023 signatures on their ipetition asking for a vote. Head office have said categorically they won’t give us a vote.

Many women who have been in abusive relationships have thought the WI was a safe haven and we could now lose loyal long standing members who believe that the WI is for natal women only.

Head office have said if we don’t like the new WI we can leave !!
They have stopped answering my emails now, so I wrote to my County WI and they apologised that they couldn’t answer me as they have been forbidden by Head Office and had to pass the emails to them to answer.

JKR seemed to be able to identify a number of transwomen, but she does have superpowers.

There's no such thing as 'natal women' - just women and not women.

Doodledog

*Glorianny*, how do you define ‘misogyny’? How are you making it apply to people not of the female sex? The ‘gyne’ part of the word is the same as in ‘gynaecology’. It relates to female sex.

If, say, a transwoman is attacked because of being transgender, the offence is a hate crime as transgender is covered under the Scottish Act. If a woman is attacked because she is female, (misogyny), however, there is no ‘hate’ element, as women are not protected in the way that transwomen are.

I repeat- a transwoman cannot suffer from misogyny because the term applies to the female sex only. It exists to differentiate between male and female. Why are you pretending otherwise?

If someone is a transwoman do you really imagine that misogynistic practices and language would not be aimed at them? No one can identify transwomen anyway. Some people may claim they can but really can't. It doesn't matter anyway. If say misogynistic statements are made about a transwoman and the same statements made to a natal woman are you really suggesting that this constitutes two different crimes?
So do you believe that a misogynistic man only targets natal women because he knows the origins of the word?

Baggs

Paul Embery on Twitter says this (and it's bang on):

"She commendably used her status and influence to throw a protective shield around those who might prove easier pickings for police and politicians. She was effectively saying, "If they don't some for me, thay cannot come for any of us."

"us" of course is anyone who speaks the truth that you can't change sex.

This absolutely!!

NanKate

This is the front cover of our WI magazine for April. The colours of purple, white and green representing the Suffragettes.

No mention that they accept transwomen, without a vote from their loyal members. We are no longer a democracy imo.

As I said before if you feel strongly about it insist it is put to a vote. Make it one of the resolutions taken by the Executive Committee. If you have enough women who object to the inclusion of transwomen and would not attend if they joined you can have them banned.
I doubt if you'd get the support.

Allegedly there have been more complaints about Humza Yousef's observations of too many white people up in wee Scotland taking all the top jobs, than there have been against JK Rowling. Anyway he pointed that out and.added to that quite shockingly when he enters a room, sometimes those rooms are full of white people shamelessly displaying their whiteness, they could do something about it, cover up any alabaster coloured arms on display with a Saltire, at least The problem is it seems, Scotland is somewhat mono cultured being 96% white!

That W.I. cover is an insult to biological women and the suffragettes!!
The suffragettes fought for biological womens rights.

NanKate

This is the front cover of our WI magazine for April. The colours of purple, white and green representing the Suffragettes.

No mention that they accept transwomen, without a vote from their loyal members. We are no longer a democracy imo.

"Making the WI's Voice Heard"

What voice is that exactly?

This is the front cover of our WI magazine for April. The colours of purple, white and green representing the Suffragettes.

No mention that they accept transwomen, without a vote from their loyal members. We are no longer a democracy imo.

Bonnybanko

Of course we should stand up for the minorities who are being bullied. The school in Aboyne north of Scotland had the school photographer in saying to the parents of the primary school they can airbrush any or all disabled children out of the school photographs - shame on them, the school has sacked the company’s contract and I agree with the hate crime they should be prosecuted for that it’s a blooming disgrace and that’s my opinion like it or lump it

I don't think anybody has endorsed the airbrushing out of disabled children from the class photo have they? So there's nothing to like or lump is there? What are your views on whether or not it should be a hate crime to correctly sex someone, a transwoman for instance? Is it a hate crime to want to protect females from having to compete against trans identified males in sports?

Of course we should stand up for the minorities who are being bullied. The school in Aboyne north of Scotland had the school photographer in saying to the parents of the primary school they can airbrush any or all disabled children out of the school photographs - shame on them, the school has sacked the company’s contract and I agree with the hate crime they should be prosecuted for that it’s a blooming disgrace and that’s my opinion like it or lump it

Feminism was about changing the system and creating a less masculine approach to society. what by including males in all areas they want? By accepting male voices defining what a woman is? It seems to me society is now more ruled by the dominance of men not less. Letting a special class of men take women's single sex spaces, sports, awards etc hasn't helped one single female. Shall we compile a list of all those transmen who have beaten men out of sporting prizes, men of the year awards, taken top company positions? Won't take a lot of ink will it?

Glorianny, how do you define ‘misogyny’? How are you making it apply to people not of the female sex? The ‘gyne’ part of the word is the same as in ‘gynaecology’. It relates to female sex.

If, say, a transwoman is attacked because of being transgender, the offence is a hate crime as transgender is covered under the Scottish Act. If a woman is attacked because she is female, (misogyny), however, there is no ‘hate’ element, as women are not protected in the way that transwomen are.

I repeat- a transwoman cannot suffer from misogyny because the term applies to the female sex only. It exists to differentiate between male and female. Why are you pretending otherwise?

Glorianny

Rosie51

GloriannyNo answers to any questions I've posed over the last few posts?

Would those iniquitous and invasive processes introduced include the once in a lifetime cheek swab to determine the sex of athletes? Nowhere near as invasive as a dental appointment, but so traumatic!

simply to prove their beliefs in biology, Do you not believe in biology? Tom Daley (huge transwomen are women advocate) and his husband somehow knew exactly what type of women, the biological distinction, they needed in order to provide them with their children.

Feminism was never about supporting discrimination no it was about promoting fairness and equality for females hence feminism. Sometimes that will mean an exclusion of, discrimination against, men for that to be achieved. Do you equally object to discrimination when jobs are advertised to specific, exclusive categories in order to balance diversity?

Demanding answers immediately isn't very considerate.
Why do you always try to focus on strangely individual instances and ignore the wider picture?
We were discussing misogyny not sports which is incredibly complicated and involves racism and white patriarchal supremacy.
Feminism was about changing the system and creating a less masculine approach to society. Not simply tapping into male prejudices and adding a few more for good measure.

Demanding answers immediately isn't very considerate. Pray show me where I demanded answers... oh you can't because I didn't.

You introduced other areas such as rape which is not a purely misogynistic offence. Men can be orally or anally raped by other men if you didn't know.

Well people could, But it actually implies that people have no feelings. And requires most to go against what they truly believe.

Do you do that type of thing yourself Glorianny?

That's your opinion. Referring to someone by the chosen pronoun is simply using words it doesn't require you to believe anything.
Of course it requires you to believe. Using 'her' ,'she' for someone who is male indicates that you share that person's misguided belief.
Such nonsense.

Oh God not the endless tedious you are a bigot nonsense. Sorry but that doesnt work anymore, that shop sailed some time ago, most people are laughing at that now. What next far right, nazis. All absolutely meaningless to me I am afraid.

I can just imagine some of these men in dresses fantasising about being sent back to the kitchen.

Rosie51

*Glorianny*No answers to any questions I've posed over the last few posts?

Would those iniquitous and invasive processes introduced include the once in a lifetime cheek swab to determine the sex of athletes? Nowhere near as invasive as a dental appointment, but so traumatic!

simply to prove their beliefs in biology, Do you not believe in biology? Tom Daley (huge transwomen are women advocate) and his husband somehow knew exactly what type of women, the biological distinction, they needed in order to provide them with their children.

Feminism was never about supporting discrimination no it was about promoting fairness and equality for females hence feminism. Sometimes that will mean an exclusion of, discrimination against, men for that to be achieved. Do you equally object to discrimination when jobs are advertised to specific, exclusive categories in order to balance diversity?

Demanding answers immediately isn't very considerate.
Why do you always try to focus on strangely individual instances and ignore the wider picture?
We were discussing misogyny not sports which is incredibly complicated and involves racism and white patriarchal supremacy.
Feminism was about changing the system and creating a less masculine approach to society. Not simply tapping into male prejudices and adding a few more for good measure.

I dont want any more laws about speech. Women and other groups suffer when this happens as has been shown time and time again. The people who want more control of speech are much more frightening to me as a woman than sone idiot who tells me to get back in the kitchen.

Doodledog

Glorianny

I am amused by the concept that only women born with the right bits can be mistreated because they are women or subjected to discrimination. Most discrimination never gets as far as asking to check what sex you were born.

You are often amused by things I find troubling, but we’re all different.

Misogyny is not about mistreatment or discrimination (as you know). Those have their own words. That’s how language works. Misogyny is the dislike or hatred of women and girls, because they are female. It can’t apply to men. Please stop wriggling.

But if we want a law about misogyny (and I thought you did) then we must consider what will be involved in that. As far as I am concerned the mistreatment, dislike or hatred of anyone who presents as a woman is misogyny. You seem to think that any misogynist is going to go around asking women to prove their natal sex. I don't think they will. I don't think they do. It's quite a valid question to ask how you see any legislation. against misogyny being applied.

GloriannyNo answers to any questions I've posed over the last few posts?

Would those iniquitous and invasive processes introduced include the once in a lifetime cheek swab to determine the sex of athletes? Nowhere near as invasive as a dental appointment, but so traumatic!

simply to prove their beliefs in biology, Do you not believe in biology? Tom Daley (huge transwomen are women advocate) and his husband somehow knew exactly what type of women, the biological distinction, they needed in order to provide them with their children.

Feminism was never about supporting discrimination no it was about promoting fairness and equality for females hence feminism. Sometimes that will mean an exclusion of, discrimination against, men for that to be achieved. Do you equally object to discrimination when jobs are advertised to specific, exclusive categories in order to balance diversity?

Catching Up
I stand with JKR
Thanks to Doodledog and Dickens plus the majority here putting forward well argued challenges to Glorirannie’s frankly ludicrous arguments
No one is anti trans.
Misogyny can’t be directed at transgender people identifying as women. Criticisms of trans activists are t misogynistic they’re anger directed at men wearing frocks who threaten women. Being subjected to death threats, bring raped to death with my lady dick - and more. Rapists demanding to serve their sentences in women’s prisons etc - that’s what we object to