Honeytrap - malevolent forces at work?

It matters not that he is gay, it does matter that he's stupid enough to go on Grindr and then to save his reputation, gives out information of friends and colleagues rather than go to the police to say he thinks he's being blackmailed. What a stupid and weak person he is. How can anyone with any integrity defend him? He's an idiot.

I don’t believe there is any evidence that other personal data has been compromised.

This further Guardian piece suggests this is more likely to be a rogue political insider who enjoyed gathering compromising material on their colleagues.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/apr/05/who-is-behind-westminster-whatsapp-honeytrap-stings-mp-william-wragg

welbeck

who are MPs' employers ?
they are not civil servants.
doubt they are subject to that vetting, except maybe informally, by parties' selection committees.

So that explains a lot of MP behaviour then. They are not accountable in the same way
What a shit show!

vegansrock

Surely it’s not just about being on a dating app though is it? It’s sharing others details and sending explicit photos.

The mucky photos are the least of their problems. Besides there banking details, passwords, friends and family details what government details has he got on his phone.
They will also have access to any notes he May written on his phone. These are messages not connected to the internet.

Marina Hyde piece in The Guardian:

As for the possible perpetrator or perpetrators, we don’t know anything much at all. Leicester police are reported to be investigating malicious communications against an unnamed parliamentarian. Hard to know what’s the more depressing: the rash of MPs now declaring reflexively of such a basic scam “Oh yeah, this’ll be a hostile state actor”; or, if it does turn out to have been a hostile state actor, the fact that this low-rent exercise was all they needed to do to hook in politicians. Master spycraft this was not.

It should be said that both the Conservatives and Labour have individuals caught up in this current story. But one thing worth wondering about is the various levels of kompromat-gathering that the political parties themselves indulge in, from the fabled dark arts of the whips’ offices to what is euphemistically known as “opposition research”. Does this ever stray into spear-phishing? We don’t really know, the entire area of oppo research being the sort of thing the parties don’t like to talk about.

Well, some of them don’t mind. In an unfortunate coincidence of timing, last weekend the Reform leader, Richard Tice, issued what he called a “special Easter message” for Tory MP Jonathan Gullis (a man one always fears is so stupid he has to have his own phone number leaked to him every day). “Given the multiple bits of embarrassing personal information we have on you,” Tice posted in full public view on X last weekend, “I suggest you pipe down on your attacks on me.” Mm.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/05/mp-blackmail-william-wragg-tory-apology-rishi-sunak

Surely it’s not just about being on a dating app though is it? It’s sharing others details and sending explicit photos.

I know of 2 young boys ( 14 yrs old) who set up a Grindr account to trap another young lad.

I think some posters don’t realise how unsafe the Grindr app is.
They now have access to everything on his phone. Plus they have access to the other numbers details.
I don’t care what he does in his private life but his shear stupidity is unforgivable 😡

Grindr, if that is what Wragg used, is a lot more sinister than the average dating app. It has been dubbed the World's Biggest, Scariest Gay Bar. It had infringed regulations on data privacy and been subject to heavy fines for it. It doesn’t verify the age of adolescents using it. Anyone in public life using it to exchange pornography is taking a huge risk.

Quote Galaxy Fri 05-Apr-24 17:52:53
Being on a dating app is not inappropriate sexual conduct.
I just think it is a very slippery slope. Being on dating apps is the way people meet, it can not in anyway be described as outside of the mainstream. I am not usually to be found defending mens sexual behaviour but I am much more concerned about whoever blackmailed these MPs.

With you Galaxy.

I know he did. But that's not what's being said on this thread. There is talk of 'mainstream practice' and those being on dating apps deserving all they get.
What if he had met someone in a pub and had a one night stand. Then they blackmailed him by saying they would share details. Mps are entitled to have sex, (preferably without photos) but there is something about this that makes me worry.

Why would anyone send a pic of their todger to someone they don’t know?

.... or even to someone they do!

And why do men think it's a thing of beauty??

It wasn’t just a dating app though - he sent explicit photo of his anatomy to someone he didn’t know - I would consider this crossing a red line.

Being on a dating app is not inappropriate sexual conduct.
I just think it is a very slippery slope. Being on dating apps is the way people meet, it can not in anyway be described as outside of the mainstream. I am not usually to be found defending mens sexual behaviour but I am much more concerned about whoever blackmailed these MPs.

who are MPs' employers ?
they are not civil servants.
doubt they are subject to that vetting, except maybe informally, by parties' selection committees.

Nolan Principles

Integrity

1:2: Holders of public office must avoid placing themselves under any obligation to people or organisations that might try inappropriately to influence them in their work. They should not act or take decisions in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family, or their friends. They must declare and resolve any interests and relationships.

1.4 Accountability

Holders of public office are accountable to the public for their decisions and actions and must submit themselves to the scrutiny necessary to ensure this.

Any holder of public office, male or female, straight or gay knows that inappropriate sexual conduct can leave them open to this kind of exploitation.

They do ask you when you have security clearance, especially DV clearance. Do MPs not have clearance like the rest of people with access to government files? If they don’t that’s quite shocking really

Why would anyone send a pic of their todger to someone they don’t know? Apparently it’s common on Grindr. I would expect an MP to have more sense, but the. To send other peoples details to avoid blackmail - it's a murky story.

He wouldn’t have been asked about his sexuality before he became an MP. I have no idea what, if any, questions would have been asked before he was given a ministerial appointment. Obviously it’s unlawful to discriminate against anyone on the grounds of their sexuality.

Galaxy

What? So now we are saying people have to meet people in the way we approve of or they deserve to be blackmailed.

No. but when they are involved in occupations where they are worth blackmailing, they ought to be aware that someone, or some organisation, is likely to consider any non-mainstream sexual preferences and/or a random choice of partner as a chance to put you in a position where they can apply pressure.

They ask you about sexual practice though during the vetting. His employers would know. Unless they don’t vet them as properly as they would a civil servant. It’s is confusing why he wouldn’t have fessed up as soon as he knew/was being coerced

I am not homophobic, but I believe that gay men are far more likely to be subject to blackmail and are thus a greater security risk, even now.

Galaxy

I could think of many reasons why you would be blackmailed, you are gay and your family dont know, you don't want a photo of yourself on social media, etc.

But generally if you work for government you undergo clearance which requires you to disclose personal information in which someone could blackmail you with. He is supposed to tell the relevant people rather than share sensitive information ( I mean other peoples details) These systems are in place to stop this happening.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s about shared photos apparently. I think anyone using some of these websites for sexual encounters deserves all they get. There are other, safer, ways to meet people.

I agree. We hear from the press that there are three MPs who sent explicit photos so far - but there could easily be more than that. I haven’t heard that anybody met anybody though, so in that sense the parallel with past MP misdemeanours is tenuous, this is a different, online ballgame (no pun intended). Presumably it’s the explicit nature of the photographs and what was discussed online that is the blackmail threat.

What? So now we are saying people have to meet people in the way we approve of or they deserve to be blackmailed.