Where have we gone wrong....

I'll have another go at this and then give up.

Predictability, order, limited choice, limited consumerism, The Church. These were factors which held us together somehow.
Now we have the cult of the individual.

I don't believe racism or accusations of snitching are productive.

Dinahmo

Those of you who are blaming immigration are perhaps forgetting the numbers immigrants that work in our hospitals and other services, such as transport.

The Windrush people were encouraged to come to the UK and believed that they would get good jobs etc. As we know many people were unwelcoming, with the signs on the front doors of boarding houses "no blacks, no Irish, no dogs"

Furthermore many West Indians enlisted in WW2. By the end of the war there were 17,500 male and female volunteers from the West Indies in the RAF alone.

Immigrants are new, even in “masses”, we’ve had immigration for many decades.

Whilst I agree there are many issues in our country, I don’t think any one race or colour is to blame.

There’s nothing wrong with controlling immigration, nothing wrong with using a points system, however let’s all remember that for decades our immigrants have done job roles us natives (some of them) thought we were too good to do ourselves.

Poverty, deprivation and lack of services, coupled with lack of education, opportunities and aspiration sadly led to vulnerable young people being groomed into gangs, leading to violence.

There are “good” and “bad” people in all countries, of all religions, of all races, of all nationalities and this country has certainly had awful crimes committed across the years by “native” Brits, Mary Bell, The Moors murderers, the Wests, the “children” who abducted, tortured and finally murdered Jamie Bulger, to name just a few.

Not new, sorry!

MaizieD

I dimly recall the posts that were deleted; when I read them I couldn't help thinking that we should reflect on the effects of the British Empire that we are feeling, and so many people are disliking, to this very day.

We took over so many countries, we ruled them directly, or indirectly through client rulers who complied with our laws and elite structures. We plundered their resources and drew their wealth into Britain. We treated their native populations as inferiors who existed to serve our wealth acquisition.

Or we sought to control them as a pawn in international relations. Our troubled association with Afghanistan stems from the mid 19C attempt to use Afghanistan as a defence against feared assault on our Indian 'possessions' by Russia.

But, above all, we told them they were British. That Britain was the 'mother country' of which they were citizens. We used that trope to enlist them in our armies. Dinahmo talks of WW2, but in WW1 we had West Indians and Indians fighting for Britain (and Australians and Canadians, but no-one worries about that because they're really 'just like us').

Then, when these 'British' subjects came to claim our protection (think Ugandan Asians) or when asked to fill our labour gaps (think Windrush), we treat them as second class beings and eventually repudiate them by taking away what they thought was their automatic right, as British citizens, to come to Britain to live and work.

I think we have to live with this and accommodate it. Blaming them for the problems Britain brought upon itself is unfair and shortsighted. We can't make the consequences of our Imperial past just vanish.

This! 👏👏👏

nanna8

I remember thanking the Lord that we were living in Australia by the time that woman was elected.She was very capable but used her brain to destroy people’s lives, no compassion whatsoever.

Mrs Thatcher got elected because the years that preceded her premiership were dismal, dark, miserable in the UK, strikes, streets full of rubbish and consequently rats everywhere. It was a thoroughly miserable time.

To be fair, poor old Sunny Jim Callaghan inherited a country which was failing on many levels , it culminating in the Winter of Discontent.

People wanted drastic change; even members of the Labour Party deserted it to vote for the Tories.

It started off well ............
But went too far and now we are living with the repercussions.

It’s nothing to do with racism, the ”decline in standards” runs right through society, I fact the wealthy young adults are just as bad, often they think they are entitled and daddy will get them out of trouble.

Do they carry knives and stab people though?

zakouma66 I agree.

Germanshepherdsmum

Do they carry knives and stab people though?

Well yes, some stabbings have been carried out by white privileged people - one that comes to mind is the young lad from Manchester Grammar (one of the top Grammar schools in the NW) who was stabbed by a 'mate' from school. The perpetrator was white, lived in Hale Barns, (very affluent footballers house territory) and certainly came from a privileged background.

Pretty rare I imagine.

Germanshepherdsmum

Do they carry knives and stab people though?

Sadly yes they do. This sent shockwaves through our local community very recently.
www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/dylan-thomas-murder-housemate-christmas-eve-peters-pies-cardiff-b1132361.html

Germanshepherdsmum

Do they carry knives and stab people though?

Possibly not, but they do have an appetite for cocaine which is usually the cause of the stabbings.

Is it? I don’t know, but I imagine the sort of person who carries and uses a knife is very likely to be taking illegal substances of one sort or another.

I think we look at the past with rose coloured glasses. Between the wars I think life appeared to be more ordered and peaceful after the carnage but of course there was great poverty and living conditions only those of us born in 30s and 40s/50s can remember. For a lot of families mum was at home, dad at work and school life well ordered. I grew up with the Windrush generation and at school and church as children we all joined together but I can’t say about work or living conditions as I was too small.

Thank you all for your replies to this thread I started, although I can’t say I am much clearer on the subject. Personally I think the rot ( if you care to call it that) set in after the Second World War. Demobbed men came home to find no jobs, and women who had learned to fend for themselves. Housing was in crisis, living was hard. Perhaps there was an element in some cases that their children should have “more” than what they had had. I must say it was not an attitude prevalent in my home, where it was considered stupid to educate girls, they only got married. Maybe said girls took a leaf out or their mothers books, and said I can fend for myself? I have sometimes thought that those of us who had fathers who “came home” suffered as much as those who had fathers who did not, we didn’t know these men. In my case “Daddy, was this strange man who came home periodically and slept in Mummy’s bed” .
I got married in 1960, had four children, they have always worked, are all married with kids of their own, own. their own homes, not mansions but theirs, their kids are either working or at uni. Four out of the eight grandkids own their own homes, three have had educational difficulties, such as being severely dyslexic but still managed a degree in microbiology. Why are mine all so “normal “ if you will? They certainly didn’t have wealthy parents, there were times our “ends weren’t even in waving distance of each other” but they have none resorted to murdering someone with the carving knife! Although I did think about it several times!!
I am still baffled. I shall probably go baffled to the grave!

parents in the old days took responsibility for their child`s behaviour and moral standards were the norm in homes as well as schools

Most children had a mum and a dad, pretty good role models on the whole

Germanshepherdsmum

Is it? I don’t know, but I imagine the sort of person who carries and uses a knife is very likely to be taking illegal substances of one sort or another.

That’s not what I meant.

The stabbings are often drug related cocaine is the drug of choice for the “upper classes” even in the Palace of Westminster.

The demand for drugs fuels the gang violence

Good to ask the question Margaret, to get us thinking and to get such a variety of answers.

MargaretinNorthant

Thank you all for your replies to this thread I started, although I can’t say I am much clearer on the subject. Personally I think the rot ( if you care to call it that) set in after the Second World War. Demobbed men came home to find no jobs, and women who had learned to fend for themselves. Housing was in crisis, living was hard. Perhaps there was an element in some cases that their children should have “more” than what they had had. I must say it was not an attitude prevalent in my home, where it was considered stupid to educate girls, they only got married. Maybe said girls took a leaf out or their mothers books, and said I can fend for myself? I have sometimes thought that those of us who had fathers who “came home” suffered as much as those who had fathers who did not, we didn’t know these men. In my case “Daddy, was this strange man who came home periodically and slept in Mummy’s bed” .
I got married in 1960, had four children, they have always worked, are all married with kids of their own, own. their own homes, not mansions but theirs, their kids are either working or at uni. Four out of the eight grandkids own their own homes, three have had educational difficulties, such as being severely dyslexic but still managed a degree in microbiology. Why are mine all so “normal “ if you will? They certainly didn’t have wealthy parents, there were times our “ends weren’t even in waving distance of each other” but they have none resorted to murdering someone with the carving knife! Although I did think about it several times!!
I am still baffled. I shall probably go baffled to the grave!

Well, nobody I know has children that have murdered people, so really not that unusual.

I think Maggie Thatcher didn't help. I think things would've gone downhill without her, though. Glenda Jackson, when MT died "sharp knees & sharp elbows". Maggie taught us to aspire to that, till then we'd always been taught consideration & to despise "I'm all right Jack"as a principle. If immigration had a role, maybe it's because those of us who aren't immigrants had an easy scapegoat when things weren't meeting our expectations, "Blame them" rather than wondering if perhaps your own section of society wasn't getting it quite right. A lot of things are better, but there's a happy medium & when the mistakes of the past are corrected, the pendelum swings too far & we go to the other extreme.

I'm surprised nobody (given the older age of this site) remembers the gun and knife amnesty of the 1960's. Violent gangs of young white men from disadvantaged backgrounds were encouraged to hand in their weapons at various deposit points such as churches. The scheme was fronted by the singer Frankie Vaughan and widely advertised, including on the TV.

I'm also surprised nobody has mentioned the Mods & Rockers, also of the 1960's, who terrorised neighbourhoods, smashed up department stores, stole on mass and engaged in bloody battles that stretched police to the limit.

Just saying.

Don’t forget the skinheads.

….and Teddy boys and their razors.

I don't think we've 'gone wrong' - although things could be a whole lot better. As we get old (and very old) our view of the world changes, that's all. We tend to focus on the negative, have little hope for the future, feel vulnerable - and that time is running out. Well, for us, it is.

We can't really be proud of our lifetime achievements, either, as we obviously haven't done nearly enough to protect the environment or improve society for those we leave behind.

Curlywhirly

I would never report a post - I would rather it remain so people can see for themselves the bigotry/prejudice/unpleasantness that is sometimes quoted and have the opportunity to question it.

This