Mr Bates giving his evidence today

The Post Office enquiry....

Currently watching it.

The more you hear the more shocking Alan Bates' evidence becomes.

I an avid watcher of the enquiry but it’s never good for my blood pressure (Jarnail Singh and Steve Bradshaw amongst the worst). This is at least an honest and genuine account.

Powerpoint slides prepared for a presentation on “Horizon integrity” by Dave Smith - then Head of Change and IS at the Post Office - was shown to the inquiry today.

Under the heading, “Of the cases I am aware of”, a slide read: “Bates had discrepancies but was dismissed because he became unmanageable.

“Clearly struggled with the accounting and despite copious support did not follow instructions.”

Mr Beer asked: “Was that ever explained to you that you became unmanageable?”

“No not at all,” Mr Bates said.

“Did you struggle with accounting?” Mr Beer asked.

“No, not at all,” repeated Mr Bates.

“Did you seek to follow the instructions that you had been given by the Post Office?” asked Mr Beer.

“Basically try and bankrupt myself? No, not to that extent,” said Mr Bates.

👏👏👏 well said Sir.

The more I hear of this scandal the worse it gets. Government, the Post Office, the Union, Fujitsu they all want locking up.

If it wasn't for the 'stubbornness' of the admirable Alan Bates then they would have got away with it too. A shameful example of everything that's wrong these days. Only a few MP's from both sides coming out of the inquiry with any credibility, trying to get answers from the PO.

I can’t wait for the appearance of Vennells later on - that should be 'interesting'!

I'm afraid I found it a bit odd that Bates displayed Johnson/Sunak levels of forgetfulness about the meeting with Ed Davey when everything else seems so clear.

I do agree, though, that Bates is probably right to say that the ministers they met were less to blame for their responses than were the civil servants who were briefing them.

I heard some of this driving earlier. Just when I think I’ve heard the worst something else is highlighted

I can recommend the BBC Podcast "The Great Post Office Trial" for anyone interested. Episode 13 "Inside the Machine" covers the findings of Fujitsu's own troubleshooters tasked to investigate the competence of the Horizon system. Their conclusions about the incompetence at the basic programming level may blow your mind.

MaizieD

I'm afraid I found it a bit odd that Bates displayed Johnson/Sunak levels of forgetfulness about the meeting with Ed Davey when everything else seems so clear.

I do agree, though, that Bates is probably right to say that the ministers they met were less to blame for their responses than were the civil servants who were briefing them.

Indeed. I have only listen to a tiny part of the enquiry - before they broke for lunch today - when Bates was asked about the meeting with Ed Davey. It followed a letter he wrote to Davey which Beer (KC) read out (described in Davey’s briefing as “confrontational”) in which Bates lists and describes a number of ways in which sub-postmasters were being harrassed and intimidated.

I find it odd that Bates can remember so little about that meeting - why he doesn’t have comprehensive notes of what happened.

Beer asked if Davey had gone point-by-point through the issues in the letter that Bates had described but he said he couldn’t remember.

As The Guardian reports: This is the first time that Bates has appeared uncomfortable giving testimony.

Urms yes they thought Mr Bates ‘unmanageable’ as he was the ‘main man’ who kept challenging and asking questions. - was persistent in trying to get answers to the glitches in the software and hit a brick wall every time… he is indeed the peoples advocate.. and now some are questioning why can’t he remember certain things… am sure we all have some degree of forgetfulness and then later remembering.. this enquiry must make everyone giving evidence some anxiety? Think I would have had a meltdown…

Alan Bates has been heavily involved in the Horizon issue for more than 20 years. I don't think he would have had much problem with appearing at the public inquiry. Appearing in court is far more nerve racking as there is always a hostile barrister to challenge your evidence. I am not at all convinced that his lapses of memory were caused by anxiety.

Nor am I trying to read anything sinister into them I just thought it a bit strange.

All of the next witnesses are from the Post Office, which should make interesting watching, though I'm not sure I have the necessary stamina

I watched it, l didn't think Bates appeared uncomfortable at all. I think it would be rather more incredible if he had total recall.

MaizieD. Me neither but I did think that Beer, having read out the entire long letter which lists so many grievances and, Bates having been called to discuss them with Davey, can remember nothing about the meeting. It is strange but moving on ...

I watched Alan Bates today giving his evidence at the enquiry. I don't usually watch these things but was so impressed by him. He looks nerdy, quiet, and innocuous but was articulate, intelligent, calm and tough, with a sense of humour. He seems such a strong person having battled for over 20 years on behalf of so many others, as well as himself. He deserves an award, as well as the compensation he should get.

They should give the sub postmasters compensation now. Why should Alan Bates (or any one of them) have to sit and be grilled. They've been ruined and driven to their knees, mentally, physically and financially. Many have died, their lives shortened by the collective criminality of the PO, the
Government and Fujitsu, and at least 5 have committed suicide. Those people will never know about their exoneration let alone compensation and those that survive are growing older by the day and are no closer to justice. What more do these inquisitors want from them for god's sake. Well, I think we all know the answer. They're waiting for more of them to die.

flappergirl

They should give the sub postmasters compensation now. Why should Alan Bates (or any one of them) have to sit and be grilled. They've been ruined and driven to their knees, mentally, physically and financially. Many have died, their lives shortened by the collective criminality of the PO, the
Government and Fujitsu, and at least 5 have committed suicide. Those people will never know about their exoneration let alone compensation and those that survive are growing older by the day and are no closer to justice. What more do these inquisitors want from them for god's sake. Well, I think we all know the answer. They're waiting for more of them to die.

Excellent post. Look at Hillsborough and the current infected blood scandal. The victims have to wait decades for any justice and compensation while those responsible for it are never held to account. Rishi had a lot to say after the BBC dram on Alan Bates but he's gone very quiet again. Just pay them, now.

Sarnia

flappergirl

They should give the sub postmasters compensation now. Why should Alan Bates (or any one of them) have to sit and be grilled. They've been ruined and driven to their knees, mentally, physically and financially. Many have died, their lives shortened by the collective criminality of the PO, the
Government and Fujitsu, and at least 5 have committed suicide. Those people will never know about their exoneration let alone compensation and those that survive are growing older by the day and are no closer to justice. What more do these inquisitors want from them for god's sake. Well, I think we all know the answer. They're waiting for more of them to die.

Excellent post. Look at Hillsborough and the current infected blood scandal. The victims have to wait decades for any justice and compensation while those responsible for it are never held to account. Rishi had a lot to say after the BBC dram on Alan Bates but he's gone very quiet again. Just pay them, now.

You are absolutely right. This isn't the only scandal to be buried. It's delaying tactics of the highest order and they think we are stupid enough to be fobbed off with "complexities" and inquiries. They have no intention of paying up and they aren't going to criminalise their establishment cronies.

Whilst the general consensus seems to be that the money paid by the postmasters to cover supposed discrepancies was absorbed as post office profit, could it have been deliberate fraud executed by a Fujitsu employee who generated these discrepancies and personally milked off the money.

Government or the PO are still dragging their feet. Did anyone see the interview with Chris Head, a former sub postmaster, on Newsnight? Compensation claims are being fought over...

That man deserves a knighthood.

I thought Alan Bates was articulate yesterday.

I think Alan Bates deserves a Knighthood. Without him, this would have all been swept under the carpet. I thought he was articulate and I don't think it was unreasonable if he didn't make notes about a meeting. At the time, he was probably overwhelmed about the whole issue and may well have had a reluctance to invest any more time into it before being spurred into action again another day.

One thing I don't understand is why the sub postmasters/mistresses have to submit claims for compensation. The PO must surely have lists of people it prosecuted and the amounts that each was alleged to have 'stolen'.

The claims should be compensation for loss of liveliehood, stress, and concomitant losses. But the original amount and the names should be known already.

Why are the various authorities saying that 'claims must be submitted' as if they wouldn't otherwise know who was owed what. They must surely have a list as a starter for ten...

Unless I missed something?