Dr Cass interviewed in The Times today says she no longer feels safe using public transport. Since the publication of her report she’s been threatened and harassed
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Dr. Hilary Cass - report re trans.
(433 Posts)This, from Suzanne Moore today in The Telegraph:
“ When Dr Hilary Cass was commissioned to report on standards of care within the NHS, it was as if finally an adult had stepped into the room. She and her team have looked at the evidence and practices that have evolved the affirmative model (designed to support and affirm an individual’s gender identity) and found much wanting. She also signalled the high levels of comorbidities with gender dysphoria. A high proportion of girls who did not want to be girls were autistic. Many had troubled childhoods or had been in care. Many were gay. All of this resulted in the unravelling of Gids and a ban on puberty blockers.
In the full report, due to be published this week, Cass is not only concerned with medical intervention but is also expected to come out against “social transition”. This is not something that happens within the health service, but it is, she says, an “active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition… it is not a neutral act and better information is needed about outcomes.”
Some believe that socially transitioning kids locks them into an identity and medical pathway that is detrimental. Cass says that gender expression is indeed fluid and changeable for adolescents and that many may take till their mid-20s to settle. In other words, leave these kids alone.”
Maybe, just maybe, we are turning a corner regarding this topic. I hope so.
But if it's a MH issue, doesn't that mean that being 'born in the wrong body' makes no sense? I don't think the 'wrong body' idea makes sense anyway for social and biological reasons, but if gender confusion is a mental illness then it suggests that there is no biological basis.
The viewpoint you get will depend on which NHS psychologist you talk to about this. They, like others have their own perceptions of what constitutes a mental health problem.
I was referring to young people - the psychologist was concerned with meeting needs.
Is that the young people who have a perception that it's been made worse, or the psychologists?
If the former, then I'm not surprised. Anyone having something taken away will feel deprived, whether it's for the worse or the better. The point though, is that young people aren't in the best position to diagnose or prescribe about their own MH problems. That decision has to be objective.
Doodledog
I'm not disagreeing that the job is not done, but as Iam says, all children (and adults, for that matter) with MH problems need to get help - I can't see why the closing of the Tavistock means that this particular issue should be prioritised when children with all sorts of problems are waiting. I'm not saying it should be ignored or pushed to the back, either, for avoidance of doubt.
I think that if the advice for adults in positions of influence to stop affirming gender change is followed, and puberty blockers are not allowed, there will be fewer problems. Obviously I can't be sure about this, as even experts disagree, but it seems to me that there must be an element of mass hysteria behind this, as the numbers of children saying they are 'in the wrong body' have grown so exponentially.
Hi - just on your second paragraph and "fewer problems". I spoke to an NHS psychologist yesterday on the issues.
She said that for a large number of young people its - in their perception - "made it worse".
Enough saw blockers as "solving" a problem and its not open to them now and neither is counselling available. So as in no where left to turn.
Mental Health assessments for children , and inpatient treatment of children with mental health disorders, are very time-consuming & expensive in staff resources compared to purely physical medicine (if there is such a thing).I think this is a factor, as well as the lack of funding, in services just not being able to cope with the increase in demand for those services. & it certainly makes it hard to see how there's going to be a quick fix for CAMHS services.
I'm not disagreeing that the job is not done, but as Iam says, all children (and adults, for that matter) with MH problems need to get help - I can't see why the closing of the Tavistock means that this particular issue should be prioritised when children with all sorts of problems are waiting. I'm not saying it should be ignored or pushed to the back, either, for avoidance of doubt.
I think that if the advice for adults in positions of influence to stop affirming gender change is followed, and puberty blockers are not allowed, there will be fewer problems. Obviously I can't be sure about this, as even experts disagree, but it seems to me that there must be an element of mass hysteria behind this, as the numbers of children saying they are 'in the wrong body' have grown so exponentially.
Absolutely agree Wyllow3 as I said, no one can defend the dreadful state of our mh services for children (or adults). .i don’t believe advising the government on how and when services for children with body dysmorphia should be funded and how
I’m certain Dr Cass could make those recommendations. I expect she shares the anger and despair
We feel
I agree CAMHS is the right agency Iam in the current situation. problem is MH services have always been relatively underfunded compared with other parts of the NHS and atm in crisis. Given this situation the Cass report is not "job done" just because it bans puberty blockers - I think Cass should have gone further in how it should be funded and when.
It does come under camhs Doodkedog, as it should. A child presenting with an eating disorder for example, should have a detailed psychological/or psychiatric assessment. So should a child presenting with body dysmorphia.
No one can defend the dreadful state of services for children and families ftom any of the agencies that are supposed to support them
The glee with which Some Posters state they without the Tavistock there are No Services is unsurprising
I agree its controversial always coming under Mental Health - any kind of gender /sexual relationship difficulties have historically always been funded by that are of the NHS.
I couldn't find a good summary of information about the UK but in the USA begin gay was considered a psychiatric condition and gender continues to be "under its auspices" as in their classification as follows
LGBT and the DSM
DSM-I (1952) – Homosexuality is listed as a sociopathic personality disturbance.
DSM-II (1968) – Homosexuality continues to be listed as a mental disorder
DSM-II (1974) – Homosexuality is no longer listed as a category of disorder. The diagnosis is replaced with the category of “sexual orientation disturbance”.
DSM-III (1980) – The diagnosis of ego-dystonic homosexuality replaces the DSM-II category of “sexual orientation disturbance.”Introduces gender identity disorder.
DSM-III-R (1987) – Ego-dystonic homosexuality is removed and replaced by “sexual disorder not otherwise specified,” which can include “persistent and marked distress about one’s sexual orientation.”
DSM-V – Includes a separate, non-mental disorder diagnoses of gender dysphoria to describer people who experience significant distress with the sex and gender they were assigned at birth.
Agreed. The problem is that there is not enough support or counselling across the board for people who need it. I don’t know if this comes under mental health or not (I think that is controversial) but there is a woeful lack of funding for that.
Yes, I think a good decision...but...as with England, banning them without providing support and help for young people who may have asked for them but are unsupported in discussing their situations is truly only implementing part of what the Cass report requires.
Galaxy
Crikey Scotland has paused puberty blockers.
But they are still considering making it a criminal offence to treat or advise people (including children) wishing to transition, without affirming that wish - thus prejudging the issue and consolidating the wish before it has been discussed and assessed. This would apply also to parents and teachers, putting them in an impossible position.
Great news.
Crikey Scotland has paused puberty blockers.
But so do I!!
Caleo
Callistemon, I suspected I might be missing the point. Thanks.
👍
Callistemon, I suspected I might be missing the point. Thanks.
Callistemon21
What is happening in the USA, Syracute, as a comparison?
Glorianny,
The shortage of mental health places is indeed unacceptable. I’ve agreed that before.
Are you advocating irrevocable drug and surgery treatment of minors until places are available?
Are you saying one group of children is more deserving of a higher place on the waiting list than another?
Elegran
It is simply wrong to say that there will be no help for them.
Read NHS England's Response to the Final Report of the Independent Rreview of Gender Services to Children and Young People.
www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/
None of the clinics have opened. None have a proposed opening date. You are advised to add your child to the waiting list and consult CAMHs if they are distressed. There are 250,000 children on the waiting lists already. Some children have waited two years for an appointment
www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/blog/over-a-quarter-of-a-million-children-still-waiting-for-mental-health-support/#:~:text=Shocking%20new%20statistics%20show%20that,for%20England%20has%20revealed%20today.
Now trans children will join them.
It really is completely unacceptable.
What is happening in the USA, Syracute, as a comparison?
Elegran
It is simply wrong to say that there will be no help for them.
Read NHS England's Response to the Final Report of the Independent Rreview of Gender Services to Children and Young People.
www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/
The truth is at the moment there is no help . The clinics are not built and there will be not enough, if any qualified staff. Being that many children’s mental health will be neglected is not good enough.
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