Five Bulgarian nationals plead guilty to falsely claiming Universal Credit over five years and storing wads of cash in ‘fraud factories’.

With Google translate it's amazing how many languages we can speak. ]😅

Goodness Chestnut that’s an assumption and a half. I suspect Brits are just as crooked as people from any other country, and are doubtless involved in crime all over the world.

Chestnut

Primrose53

growstuff

Germanshepherdsmum

GrannyGravy13

I am coming to the conclusion that it is now politically incorrect to state the bleedin’ obvious.

These were Bulgarian nationals who deliberately set out to defraud the U.K. Government, why in earth should we pussyfoot around this fact

Posting that others should be in jail is pure whataboutery

How true - to the extent that the opening post has been amended by removing mention of the nationality of these disgusting fraudsters, despite it having been mentioned in the press and on the tv and radio news. But we mustn’t mention it on GN. What are we coming to?

The nationality isn't relevant. The massive amount involved and the fact that anybody could get away with it are the important issues.

The nationality IS relevant as I said in my earlier post. It is relevant because if people whose first language is not English can defraud the system then alarm bells should be ringing and making it watertight should be top priority.

Agreed as I said before, we need to know how many people from other countries are scamming us and robbing us. It is an important factor surely. There are our own home-grown criminals and then there are foreign criminals and it seems that nowadays most of these large scale organised gangs are the latter.

Ahem! I suspect that's not true. The public doesn't get to hear about many of the large scale gangs.

Callistemon21

My first language is English, btw.

My first language is also English. I also speak almost fluent German. I hadn't thought about trying it, but I'm sure my German would be good enough to defraud the German benefit system - if it's defraudable.

Primrose53

growstuff

Germanshepherdsmum

GrannyGravy13

I am coming to the conclusion that it is now politically incorrect to state the bleedin’ obvious.

These were Bulgarian nationals who deliberately set out to defraud the U.K. Government, why in earth should we pussyfoot around this fact

Posting that others should be in jail is pure whataboutery

How true - to the extent that the opening post has been amended by removing mention of the nationality of these disgusting fraudsters, despite it having been mentioned in the press and on the tv and radio news. But we mustn’t mention it on GN. What are we coming to?

The nationality isn't relevant. The massive amount involved and the fact that anybody could get away with it are the important issues.

The nationality IS relevant as I said in my earlier post. It is relevant because if people whose first language is not English can defraud the system then alarm bells should be ringing and making it watertight should be top priority.

How do you know they didn't speak good English? What a load of *!

For five people, the amount they defrauded was pretty astonishing.

Well said, @Dickens

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68774242
Five members of an organised gang have been convicted of what has been described by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) as the largest case of benefit fraud in England and Wales
The gang of three women and two men - all Bulgarian - made thousands of fraudulent claims for Universal Credit over a four and a half year period.
They each admitted to stealing more than £50m at London's Wood Green Crown Court.
All five pleaded guilty to fraud.

They also admitted money laundering offences made thousands of false claims for Universal Credit using either real people or hijacked identities.
These claims were supported by an array of forged documents, including fictitious tenancy agreements, counterfeit payslips and forged letters from landlords, employers and GPs.Once the claims were made, money was laundered around numerous bank accounts or withdrawn in cash.

organised crime.

My first language is English, btw.

TerriBull

petra

TerryBull
I live in Bulgaria from 2004- 2009 so I was there when they joined the EU. Everyone in the EU knew how corrupt it was/is.
They were allowed to join ( with Romania) because of the very long border with Turkey. The Americans had a lot of say in it.
Their ability for corruption is off the scale, as is their expertise for forgery.
Most of these benefit claims were probably made before we left the EU. A huge number of people were trafficked to set these up.

Thank you for clarifying Petra, I thought I'd read that was the case, but I couldn't remember the finer detail when I posted up-thread.

Well, all I can say is that expertise is a good word to use for them, because I've been trying to ascertain if my state pension (aka 'a benefit') is correct and dealing with the DWP is like walking through a vat of treacle.

Primrose53

growstuff

Germanshepherdsmum

GrannyGravy13

I am coming to the conclusion that it is now politically incorrect to state the bleedin’ obvious.

These were Bulgarian nationals who deliberately set out to defraud the U.K. Government, why in earth should we pussyfoot around this fact

Posting that others should be in jail is pure whataboutery

How true - to the extent that the opening post has been amended by removing mention of the nationality of these disgusting fraudsters, despite it having been mentioned in the press and on the tv and radio news. But we mustn’t mention it on GN. What are we coming to?

The nationality isn't relevant. The massive amount involved and the fact that anybody could get away with it are the important issues.

The nationality IS relevant as I said in my earlier post. It is relevant because if people whose first language is not English can defraud the system then alarm bells should be ringing and making it watertight should be top priority.

Agreed as I said before, we need to know how many people from other countries are scamming us and robbing us. It is an important factor surely. There are our own home-grown criminals and then there are foreign criminals and it seems that nowadays most of these large scale organised gangs are the latter.

I suppose they could have been bilingual?

growstuff

Germanshepherdsmum

GrannyGravy13

I am coming to the conclusion that it is now politically incorrect to state the bleedin’ obvious.

These were Bulgarian nationals who deliberately set out to defraud the U.K. Government, why in earth should we pussyfoot around this fact

Posting that others should be in jail is pure whataboutery

How true - to the extent that the opening post has been amended by removing mention of the nationality of these disgusting fraudsters, despite it having been mentioned in the press and on the tv and radio news. But we mustn’t mention it on GN. What are we coming to?

The nationality isn't relevant. The massive amount involved and the fact that anybody could get away with it are the important issues.

The nationality IS relevant as I said in my earlier post. It is relevant because if people whose first language is not English can defraud the system then alarm bells should be ringing and making it watertight should be top priority.

For what it’s worth it shouldn’t matter what nationality the amassed culprits are ,all foreign nationals . I imagine this is one group that have been found out & that there are unfortunately many more who have managed to so easily scam the DWP out of such a huge amount. It is almost manna from heaven to come to the UK these days , claiming benefits, getting housing et al .
Sending in claims that have previously been rejected until they were finally accepted. Absolutely abhorrent behaviour at any time & more so when you know of people who are in need & are unable to claim even the smallest amount .
Interestingly I recently had a conversation with a relative regarding a claim that was denied / rejected to them in late 2013 &I suggested they re submit. So , let’s watch this space .

petra

TerryBull
I live in Bulgaria from 2004- 2009 so I was there when they joined the EU. Everyone in the EU knew how corrupt it was/is.
They were allowed to join ( with Romania) because of the very long border with Turkey. The Americans had a lot of say in it.
Their ability for corruption is off the scale, as is their expertise for forgery.
Most of these benefit claims were probably made before we left the EU. A huge number of people were trafficked to set these up.

Thank you for clarifying Petra, I thought I'd read that was the case, but I couldn't remember the finer detail when I posted up-thread.

We know that stolen identities were used and that a company was formed to offer people the opportunity to obtain NI numbers and benefits, with those benefits being siphoned off by the crooks. We know that the requisite supporting documents were forged. I suspect the forgeries were very good indeed. I’m sure that people with the right underworld connections can easily be put in touch with an expert forger.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m sure a UK citizen could do exactly the same growstuff, and quite likely some do. This has hit the headlines because of the sheer scale of it. The key to success with this operation seems to have been expertise in forgery. As was said upthread, we can but hope that AI will be more successful in detecting forged documents than the human eye. Without knowing more details, we can’t say that the DWP was lax - and obviously we’re not going to get the level of information that would enable someone else to do it.

I agree that the public isn't going to be given details about how it was done, in which case there's going to be much speculation.

I’m sure a UK citizen could do exactly the same growstuff, and quite likely some do. This has hit the headlines because of the sheer scale of it. The key to success with this operation seems to have been expertise in forgery. As was said upthread, we can but hope that AI will be more successful in detecting forged documents than the human eye. Without knowing more details, we can’t say that the DWP was lax - and obviously we’re not going to get the level of information that would enable someone else to do it.

Germanshepherdsmum

Apparently the fraudulent claims started in 2016 and were detected in 2021, when investigations commenced. It was an extremely sophisticated fraud involving a lot of forged documents and stolen identities, as well as real people who applied to a company set up by the fraudsters to obtain NI numbers and benefits for the applicants. Now which legitimate UK citizen has to resort to such measures?

I remember the brouhaha about Bulgaria joining the EU.

I have absolutely no idea what the answer to your question is, but I don't see why UK citizens wouldn't be able to set up a similar operation. I don't see why anybody would need to be a foreign national to do the same. I know of somebody, a British national, who defrauded the local council of nearly a £million before she was caught. I suspect some people on GN (if they were ever a member of another social media site) know the person.

If the loopholes are there, I'm not surprised somebody exploited them. Like others, I'm just amazed that the DWP was so lax. I expect some people have read about the people in receipt of Carer's Allowance who have been caught out for earning a couple of pounds over the threshold. It seems the DWP's priorities are wrong.

Apparently the fraudulent claims started in 2016 and were detected in 2021, when investigations commenced. It was an extremely sophisticated fraud involving a lot of forged documents and stolen identities, as well as real people who applied to a company set up by the fraudsters to obtain NI numbers and benefits for the applicants. Now which legitimate UK citizen has to resort to such measures?

I remember the brouhaha about Bulgaria joining the EU.

TerryBull
I live in Bulgaria from 2004- 2009 so I was there when they joined the EU. Everyone in the EU knew how corrupt it was/is.
They were allowed to join ( with Romania) because of the very long border with Turkey. The Americans had a lot of say in it.
Their ability for corruption is off the scale, as is their expertise for forgery.
Most of these benefit claims were probably made before we left the EU. A huge number of people were trafficked to set these up.

keepingquiet

GrannyGravy13

keepingquiet

At least they didn't pile up their ill gotten cash in the Cayman islands for tax dodging purposes. Wake up to the real criminals please.

Do you consider these five people to be real criminals ?

I am absolutely sick to my back teeth with the constant inferences on GN that anyone who is wealthy is a ^tax dodger^

Look I'm not defending what these people did but the fraud perpertrated every day by others goes unreported because it doesn't whip up a media storm like these sort of stories.

I think this is evidenced by the reaction on here.

No, I get equally frustrated at all so called white collar crime whoever it is.

"wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain"

A definition of fraud.

Quite common.

If it goes unreported, keepingquiet, how do you know about it?

I should think that any fraud on this scale would whip up a media storm, as it has.

I think the U.K. is at a tipping point when it comes to ID cards, maybe a cross party consultation is needed.

I was anti for many years, but now can see more positives than negatives, especially when the majority of people have scorecards (nectar, Tesco’s, M & S Sparks card, Boots Advantage card etc.,) along with the dwindling use of cash. We are all fairly traceable on a day to day basis.