Five Bulgarian nationals plead guilty to falsely claiming Universal Credit over five years and storing wads of cash in ‘fraud factories’.

I find it a poor description of the old age pension, hadn’t realised it was called a benefit. I certainly don’t feel it should be but probably another thread. Not this dreadful criminal activity.

GrannyGravy13

keepingquiet

At least they didn't pile up their ill gotten cash in the Cayman islands for tax dodging purposes. Wake up to the real criminals please.

Do you consider these five people to be real criminals ?

I am absolutely sick to my back teeth with the constant inferences on GN that anyone who is wealthy is a ^tax dodger^

Look I'm not defending what these people did but the fraud perpertrated every day by others goes unreported because it doesn't whip up a media storm like these sort of stories.

I think this is evidenced by the reaction on here.

Yes, Dickens, I have no doubt that the lack of a requirement for ID is an attraction - which says something about those who are so attracted, whose numbers we can never know.

For those criticising Urms’s mention of the fraudsters’ nationality, here is the press release from the CPS. Shall we say that they are racist and xenophobic?
www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/members-britains-biggest-benefit-fraud-gang-convicted

leapyearnan

It doesn’t matter whether reporters are left, right, centre or upside down! It NEEDS reporting. It DOES matter that they are foreign nationals defrauding a system designed for British tax payers and those ENTITLED to benefits. This country is way too soft - we all know that which is why thousands risk their lives crossing the channel to reach our shores. We are the most gullible nation falling for others sob fictional stories. No other country would be as afraid to say no. We’re spending billions on pussy footing around, accommodating them, caring for them when they should be shipped back from whence they came. Our benefit system is clearly so easily tapped into by organised crime that it beggars belief. Those whose job it is to catch these fraudsters do not seem to have one iota of incentive to provide their proof expediently. They probably followed them for months, years even ‘gathering evidence’. We’re so afraid of pointing the finger at foreigners, even when they are defrauding the country on such a vast scale. Look at the grooming gangs in Bradford, allowed to get away with such monumentally appalling behaviour because the country was too afraid to be seen as racist. We only have ourselves to blame for being soft, bereft of all common sense and clearly having money to give away by the billions. Unfortunately, it is the sick and the poor who suffer in the end. We do not value our own citizens sufficiently. You have far more money spent on you if you break the law than if you do an honest day’s work. We are headed on the highway to ruin and no mistake.

This country is way too soft - we all know that which is why thousands risk their lives crossing the channel to reach our shores. We are the most gullible nation falling for others sob fictional stories.

This trope - that we are a soft touch ignores the fact that most other European nations pay benefits to those claiming asylum - some pay less, some pay more.

The reason various immigrants head for the UK is because English is the universal language, and many of them speak it to some degree or other, and - more importantly to them - we do not have ID cards which most other EU countries do, which makes it a heck of a lot easier to disappear into either the black economy or criminal activity. That is the draw.

There are criminal gangs working in many other countries - organised crime is everywhere. There are gangs and syndicates in Britain - the criminals are from a variety of ethnic origins, including native British.

We are not exploited because we are soft we are abused in this way because crime gangs will look for loopholes and there are too many loopholes in our organisations and systems - the lack of ID is one of them.

And we wonder why there is no money in the pot and people have to work longer before they get their pensions. Genuine claimants being denied help.
My hubby had to give up work in 2017 as he was seriously ill and his condition meant he couldn't work again. He gets ESA but in November 2023 we got a letter from them and it seemed we didn't advise them that his works pension had gone up. He wrote straight back and said he was sorry it was a genuine oversight on his part. They are now taking the overpayments off him and fined him £50.

It’s probably by no means the only operation of this scale. The most important issue surely is improving detection and catching others who are running similar operations, bearing in mind this one was actually detected three years ago?
Does anybody know, has that happened?

keepingquiet

At least they didn't pile up their ill gotten cash in the Cayman islands for tax dodging purposes. Wake up to the real criminals please.

Oh, so these weren’t real criminals.
OK. Maybe £54m is too measly an amount to steal from the taxpayer to count.

Germanshepherdsmum

GrannyGravy13

I am coming to the conclusion that it is now politically incorrect to state the bleedin’ obvious.

These were Bulgarian nationals who deliberately set out to defraud the U.K. Government, why in earth should we pussyfoot around this fact

Posting that others should be in jail is pure whataboutery

How true - to the extent that the opening post has been amended by removing mention of the nationality of these disgusting fraudsters, despite it having been mentioned in the press and on the tv and radio news. But we mustn’t mention it on GN. What are we coming to?

The nationality isn't relevant. The massive amount involved and the fact that anybody could get away with it are the important issues.

Primrose53

Grammaretto

It's interesting that only the right wing telegraph, sky news and the DM, are highlighting this story so far.

Therefore IMO it's a deliberate ploy to whip up xenophobia, and look how well it works!

Don’t be daft. It was on the TV news this morning, a disgusted neighbour told me.

And as per my pp, a big article in the Times.

leapyearnan

It doesn’t matter whether reporters are left, right, centre or upside down! It NEEDS reporting. It DOES matter that they are foreign nationals defrauding a system designed for British tax payers and those ENTITLED to benefits. This country is way too soft - we all know that which is why thousands risk their lives crossing the channel to reach our shores. We are the most gullible nation falling for others sob fictional stories. No other country would be as afraid to say no. We’re spending billions on pussy footing around, accommodating them, caring for them when they should be shipped back from whence they came. Our benefit system is clearly so easily tapped into by organised crime that it beggars belief. Those whose job it is to catch these fraudsters do not seem to have one iota of incentive to provide their proof expediently. They probably followed them for months, years even ‘gathering evidence’. We’re so afraid of pointing the finger at foreigners, even when they are defrauding the country on such a vast scale. Look at the grooming gangs in Bradford, allowed to get away with such monumentally appalling behaviour because the country was too afraid to be seen as racist. We only have ourselves to blame for being soft, bereft of all common sense and clearly having money to give away by the billions. Unfortunately, it is the sick and the poor who suffer in the end. We do not value our own citizens sufficiently. You have far more money spent on you if you break the law than if you do an honest day’s work. We are headed on the highway to ruin and no mistake.

It doesn't matter whether they are foreigners or not. This was fraud on a massive scale and it wouldn't have been more justifiable if they'd been British nationals.

I suppose its easier to shrug off and reapply if you are not emotionally and genuinely in need of help.

For those that are, it is a constant worry that "they" may decide you're not entitled to it.

I was really angry when I read about this on the BBC website. Organised criminal gangs are clearly successful big businesses and I am glad that this gang was eventually caught. I am astonished at the amount of money they managed to steal. Apparently, if a fraudulant claim was refused, they just kept on applying until it was granted. The system of checks and balances, if it exists at all, is not fit for purpose.

dogsmother

Callistemon
Do you see a paid up pension as a benefit then?

State Pension is defined within the law as a benefit, and administered by the DWP.

Sarnia

Instead of pointing the finger at the perpetrators, I blame the Government. 14 years of Tory rule and I am hard pressed to find anything that works well and is fit for purpose. The DWP are a case in point. When an application is made, does anyone check the statements made? Clearly not. There have been countless cases over the years where people blatantly lie on the forms but get away with it because it is accepted at face value. Just another example of soft touch Britain. We must be the laughing stock of the world.

And yet disabled claimants are put through gruelling assessments on behalf of DWP, by assessors recruited from NHS etc, and largely with no experience of the disabilities they’re supposed to be assessing, beyond minimal training as ‘disability analysts’. DWP routinely disregard genuine medical evidence in favour of assessors reports and as a result the benefit bill has ballooned because of claimants being forced to go to expensive tribunals in order to get a fair decision. So it would seem that we’re a soft touch to some, at the expense of others.

The message in the dwp recorded info specifies.
"If you have just arrived in this country....." and directs those people to a different pathway.

Perhaps that has some bearing on fraudulent claims?

Callistemon21

dogsmother

Callistemon
Do you see a paid up pension as a benefit then?

I don't but it is the correct term for it.

I think I posted before that I wrote and asked why years ago and got an explanation that made no real sense as to why.

I do have my state pension paid into my bank account but it was a choice at the time, the alternative being having a pension book and queuing at the Post Office to collect it.

It doesn’t matter whether reporters are left, right, centre or upside down! It NEEDS reporting. It DOES matter that they are foreign nationals defrauding a system designed for British tax payers and those ENTITLED to benefits. This country is way too soft - we all know that which is why thousands risk their lives crossing the channel to reach our shores. We are the most gullible nation falling for others sob fictional stories. No other country would be as afraid to say no. We’re spending billions on pussy footing around, accommodating them, caring for them when they should be shipped back from whence they came. Our benefit system is clearly so easily tapped into by organised crime that it beggars belief. Those whose job it is to catch these fraudsters do not seem to have one iota of incentive to provide their proof expediently. They probably followed them for months, years even ‘gathering evidence’. We’re so afraid of pointing the finger at foreigners, even when they are defrauding the country on such a vast scale. Look at the grooming gangs in Bradford, allowed to get away with such monumentally appalling behaviour because the country was too afraid to be seen as racist. We only have ourselves to blame for being soft, bereft of all common sense and clearly having money to give away by the billions. Unfortunately, it is the sick and the poor who suffer in the end. We do not value our own citizens sufficiently. You have far more money spent on you if you break the law than if you do an honest day’s work. We are headed on the highway to ruin and no mistake.

dogsmother

Callistemon
Do you see a paid up pension as a benefit then?

I don't but it is the correct term for it.

I think I posted before that I wrote and asked why years ago and got an explanation that made no real sense as to why.

GSM. The opening post still has Bulgarian in the title?

This was a very sophisticated, professionally run operation. The introduction of AI will help detect forgeries and inconsistent applications better than humans can. If you think of how many forged banknotes and coins are in circulation it gives a better idea of how sophisticated fraudsters are.

GrannyGravy13

I am coming to the conclusion that it is now politically incorrect to state the bleedin’ obvious.

These were Bulgarian nationals who deliberately set out to defraud the U.K. Government, why in earth should we pussyfoot around this fact

Posting that others should be in jail is pure whataboutery

How true - to the extent that the opening post has been amended by removing mention of the nationality of these disgusting fraudsters, despite it having been mentioned in the press and on the tv and radio news. But we mustn’t mention it on GN. What are we coming to?

By the time I got to this thread the comments about nationality had been deleted but agree that they were beside the point.

I set what we learn about fraud on this scale against yesterday’s story about the venom with which the dwp has been pursuing family carers for not noticing when a small change in their circs meant that they became ineligible to receive the Carers Allowance. It seems that the dwp has the means of noticing and recording these things but never notifies the claimant, so that the mistake rolls on for years and becomes an unaffordable sum. Apparently the numbers deliberately ripping off the system are tiny and the numbers falling into the pit are large.

It comes to something when people come here from other countries, whose first language is not English and they STILL manage to run rings around our benefits system. The system is clearly very weak.

Why are some super geeks not getting together and working out a foolproof system so we are not losing millions to fraudsters.

OK this time it is Bulgarians but we have had people from other countries doing this for years.

It has got to be stopped and soon and people who are convicted should be deported.

Callistemon
Do you see a paid up pension as a benefit then?