The matter of Angela Rayner's house sale isn't going away.....

Casdon

Germanshepherdsmum

She isn’t in the headlines because there’s an ongoing police investigation.

It’s not that, she was in the headlines plenty yesterday. She’s not in the headlines because there’s a new juicy story today, that’s how it goes with the media.

You won’t see her in the House of Lords, either….

Urmstongran

I just thought this was very witty.
It was in The Telegraph today.

😂😂😂

Angela Rayner's alleged misdemeanours are really the least of anyone's worries given the truly shocking crimes of members of the current government. I am not being partisan, I would say the same if she was a Tory MP.

Of course she must be investigated but honestly, the level of corruption and sleaze elsewhere has plumbed new depths. It is completely indefensible. There must be something very wrong in the corridors of power to engender such a proliferation of sordid behaviour.

Very good!

I just thought this was very witty.
It was in The Telegraph today.

No, they go on to the latest new scandal every day, it’s totally transparent- I suppose it sells.

I didn’t see Michelle Mone in the headlines yesterday.

Germanshepherdsmum

She isn’t in the headlines because there’s an ongoing police investigation.

It’s not that, she was in the headlines plenty yesterday. She’s not in the headlines because there’s a new juicy story today, that’s how it goes with the media.

She isn’t in the headlines because there’s an ongoing police investigation.

Not “ whataboutery” but a legitimate comparison. Let’s compare the newspaper column inches given to AR and some Tories and their donors misdemeanors , and this is not even going back 10 years. Michelle Mone on her yacht after pocketing £67 million of taxpayers money for useless PPE is the one which should still be in the headlines.

So all eyes now turn to Mark Menzies - or do they?

Grant Shapps doesn’t think we should be worried about yet another Tory misappropriating funds.

Allegedly Menzies’ use of immigrant rent boys has led to blackmail, which he initially paid, but latterly ran out of funds.

I am sure that Tory supporters will agree with Shapps/Green /Fox/Stockheath who denied that - Menzies from whom the whip has now been withdrawn as it has reached public domain,
- the Tory party knew about the corruption - stated

“Just because an accusation is made or something is written doesn’t mean that ii is necessarily proven”

It would have been a good guess though. 10 years ago Menzieswas found to have obtained illegal drugs from a Brazilian sex worker.

This is the 14 th MP to be stripped of the whip - just in this parliament😮.

Now - back to Angela Rayner

It's worthy of it's own thread, I think.
"Bad people" were keeping him locked in a flat.

vegansrock

Meanwhile-
Tory MP investigated over alleged misuse of campaign funds www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68841840

So, this thread is supposed to be about Rayner, not Tory mps, its whataboutery to deflect.

I would just point out, TS, first that the amounts of money potentially involved are irrelevant, and secondly that HMRC have 20 years to investigate suspected deliberate tax evasion.

Would you be happy for the police not to investigate a robbery simply because what was stolen was of little monetary value?

Now even a Tory - in this case a former Tory MP - is criticising this case. As you say Maybee70, the CGT which HMRC will not pursue because it’s out of time may be £3000 at most. Or it could be nothing when costs are deducted.

Urmstongran’s post upthread quotes The Telegraph saying: Police are investigating Angela Rayner over council tax fraud. Tax fraud not electoral fraud.

As James Daley MP refuses to say what he has alleged, let’s assume he has also alleged that the Rayners have fiddled their council tax over the period 2010 to 2015 by claiming single person occupancy discounts. The period of difficulty seems to be the five year period from 2010 to 2015.

According to various sources, Rayner’s brother lived in her house alone during that period and Rayner lived in her husband’s house. Rayner’s house was in council tax band B and her husband’s house was in band A. The 25% discounts for five whole years would have been £1,533 on the band B house and £1,314 on the band A house.

If Rayner’s brother was a sole occupant (as neighbours claim) then he would have been responsible for making the annual council tax declaration and would have been entitled to the 25% discount.

If Rayner’s husband had made a declaration about his own property - that he was the sole occupant in order to receive a 25% discount when Rayner was living there then he would be guilty of an offence.

Someone staying temporarily at an address does not automatically make them a resident there. Someone staying two or three nights in a property on a regular basis would probably be considered resident.

Worst case scenario is if Rayner was dividing her time between both properties and the council deemed that both properties should be charged at 100%. The revenue lost would be £2,848 in total for five years.

The maximum penalty under The Council Tax Reduction Schemes (Detection of Fraud and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2013 is 50% of the excess reduction with a minimum charge of £100 and maximum of £1000.

Again, worst case scenario, if two separate offences have been committed, one for each property, then £1,424 would be payable but the council would prosecute whoever made the declarations and that may not have been Rayner. To be able to investigate this, Stockport Council would have to produce the paper declarations from ten to fifteen years ago (or some legally acceptable facsimile of) which may no longer exist.

Proceedings brought for an offence under these Regulations may be begun at any time within the period of three months from the date on which evidence - sufficient in the opinion of the prosecutor to justify a prosecution for the offence, comes to the prosecutor’s knowledge* - or within a period of 12 months from the commission of the offence, - whichever period last expires. The latter is long out of time so it would have to be three months from evidence sufficient in the opinion of the prosecutor …

So far, all Greater Manchester Police have said is that "a number of assertions are knocking about”. Assertions are not evidence. Does anyone really think that a prosecution is going to be mounted for something that happened that long ago for less than £1,500 worse case scenario?

A dozen officers assigned to the case for a fishing expedition for things that might or might not have happened between nine and fourteen years ago before Rayner became an MP. This gets more ludicrous by the day. And speaking of days …

Not all police forces make this data public but some do. Based on what I have found, the daily rate of operation resource costs for a police constable outside of a metropolitan area is around £500; for a police sergeant it’s £600. I can’t imagine anyone more senior being allocated to investigating this. A dozen officers will be costing at least £6,000 per day.

Compare a possible CGT bill of £3,000 (which HMRC won’t pursue as it’s out of time) and possible council tax penalties of worse case scenario £1,424 which, if any cupability is found, may actually be charges on Rayner’s brother and husband not Rayner.

Some Tory sources say that it is Daley who is pushing the council issue and Jonathan Gullis (another of the 2019 intake whose career has been mired in controversy) pushing the CGT issue.

This is a smear campaign and breaches the Minsterial Code which requires that working relationships, including with civil servants, ministerial and parliamentary colleagues and parliamentary staff should be proper and appropriate. Harassing, bullying or other inappropriate or discriminating behaviour wherever it takes place is not consistent with the Ministerial Code and will not be tolerated.

The Prime Minister oversees the standards of behaviour expected of a government minister and the appropriate consequences of a breach of those standards. There is no formal route for the public to submit allegations of breaches of the Ministerial Code.

My question is why is Sunak allowing this? When he entered Downing Street as Prime Minister, he promised a government of integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level. He needs to police his own ministers.

MayBee70 👍🏻

Meanwhile-
Tory MP investigated over alleged misuse of campaign funds www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68841840

RAYNER

What’s all this fuss about tax?
Said Ms Rayner – on getting attacks;
Those nasty Tories,
Are just telling stories,
Along with their media hacks.

Hubby and I bought a council house each –
Once evil Thatcher put them in reach;
Who’s a hypocrite – ME?!
But we’re quids-in, tee-hee,
It’s for YOU to practise what I preach!

Attacks on Rayner
Sir, Having served for nine years as an MP I know how low politicians can stoop when their backs are against the wall. But the Conservative attack on Angela Rayner is one of the most grotesque spectacles of hypocrisy I have witnessed. On one side is a billionaire Tory peer, Lord Ashcroft, and a multimillionaire Tory prime minister, Rishi Sunak, whose families have all avoided paying millions of pounds in UK tax as beneficiaries of non-dom status and who live lives of luxury. On the other is a woman who grew up in poverty caring for her illiterate mother, who is now mother to a child who is registered blind, and who through her own guts and character has risen to be deputy leader of the Labour Party. Even Rayner’s accusers accept that the most she might have benefited from the error that they allege ­— and which she denies — is less than £3,000 in tax.
I suppose that her attackers cannot bear the idea that they are about to lose to a woman who pulled herself up by her bootstraps. And who is going wipe the floor with them.
Nick Boles
London SE5
This letter was in yesterdays Times.

But the relevant statutes of limitations have past and the DPP can’t actually prosecute anyway. Such a monumental waste of time and money.

growstuff

Urmstongran

There have been no new developments since yesterday it seems.
Blimey - how long should a few cross reference checks take? This should’ve been done and dusted by now!

Maybe Manchester Police was distracted by a few other crimes.

It’s quite a busy area GMP, operating with I think 20 percent less officers than they had ten years ago. There’s serious criminal activity, COCG etc

Urmstongran

There have been no new developments since yesterday it seems.
Blimey - how long should a few cross reference checks take? This should’ve been done and dusted by now!

Maybe Manchester Police was distracted by a few other crimes.

The police acting with integrity.
The more the tories try to undermine Raynor the more I dislike their tactics
Brass neck

What Urmstongran posted was not the full transcript.

“We, on an initial assessment, made a determination that it was unlikely we would pursue an investigation. On the provision of further investigation or further information, we have reassessed that decision and we have announced we will launch a formal investigation.”

He added: “That is a neutral act, it does not imply that information gives us any hard or fast evidence in which to base anything at this stage. It is simply that we have an allegation, these allegations are all over the news, we are going to get to the bottom of what has happened.”

There have been no new developments since yesterday it seems.
Blimey - how long should a few cross reference checks take? This should’ve been done and dusted by now!