Does Israel want full scale war in the Middle East?

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GrannyGravy13

Glorianny you seem to constantly omit the blatantly obvious about Hamas.

Hamas amassed weaponry, built tunnels (some under schools and hospitals) as ammunition stores, they hoarded food, water and fuel for the Hamas soldiers.

What did they do for the rest of the Palestinians in preparation for the assault from Israel which they knew would happen after Hamas’s dreadful murderous attacks of raping and hostage taking on 7/10/2023?

This is a bit like blaming the prisoner because the prison isn't kept as clean or as comfortable as it might be.
But let's address it anyway
The tunnels were built to supply Gaza.
Except for the ones the Israelis built - the spaces under the Al-Shifa hospital which were regulation requirements.

But suppose Hamas had built shelters and provided food (water would be difficult the Israelis supply power for the desalination plant). Gaza has the same population density as London about 14000 people per square mile. How much space would be needed to provide bomb proof shelters and how much food would be needed to keep those people? And there would still be little or no water. And the bombs would still fall.

maddyone

It does make me wonder what Hamas promised that made Gazans vote for them.

Healthcare and welfare?

Did they get it Dickens?
I heard that Israel supplied the hospitals, trained their medics, and took complex cases out of Gaza to treat in Israeli hospitals.

maddyone

Did they get it Dickens?
I heard that Israel supplied the hospitals, trained their medics, and took complex cases out of Gaza to treat in Israeli hospitals.

People left Gaza for treatment in Israeli hospitals because some conditions were untreatable there. Pregnant women who needed specialist attention were sometimes kept waiting at the border and some gave birth there.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thank you Nanna 8. It is always very difficult being Jewish, but I never thought I’d be afraid to wear a Star of David in public in England in 2024. It feels that the world has forgotten or chooses to ignore what triggered this latest conflict. Isn’t lucky that the allies were not told to stop bombing Germany during WW2, the entire world would be speaking German now.

maddyone

Did they get it Dickens?
I heard that Israel supplied the hospitals, trained their medics, and took complex cases out of Gaza to treat in Israeli hospitals.

Hamas’s early success has been ascribed to its provision of social services such as healthcare and welfare. Initially, it also seemed to be a valuable counterpoint to what was perceived as corruption within the incumbent Fatah party.

But a survey undertaken by Arab Barometer, a nonpartisan research network, between September 28 and October 8 2023 revealed dwindling confidence in Hamas (the surveys in Gaza were completed on October 6). Asked to identify the amount of trust they had in the Hamas authorities, 44% said they had no trust at all, while 23% said they had little trust. Significantly this lack of trust was roughly uniform across age groups with those between the ages of 18-29 and those over 30 giving similar answers.

An earlier poll taken by the Washington Institute in July 2023, moreover, found that 62% of people in Gaza supported Hamas maintaining a ceasefire with Israel and 50% agreed that: “Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.”

It’s important to remember that there have been no elections since 2006 and the average age of people in Gaza is about 18, meaning most people have not had the chance to vote for any other leadership.

from THE CONVERSATION
theconversation.com/gaza-war-how-representative-is-hamas-of-ordinary-palestinians-218080

Fflaurie

Thank you Nanna 8. It is always very difficult being Jewish, but I never thought I’d be afraid to wear a Star of David in public in England in 2024. It feels that the world has forgotten or chooses to ignore what triggered this latest conflict. Isn’t lucky that the allies were not told to stop bombing Germany during WW2, the entire world would be speaking German now.

That's nonsense! There is no way that Germany could have hung on to the whole world - it couldn't even hold the fronts it had. How did bombing Dresden achieve anything? In any case, most British people do speak a derivation of German. The roots of modern English are in the language spoken by Anglo Saxons (who were German).

I have every sympathy with the discrimination shown against Jews, even though they aren't responsible for what the Israeli government is doing, but don't mention events of 80 years ago without also mentioning Zionist terrorism or West Bank settlement.

maddyone

Did they get it Dickens?
I heard that Israel supplied the hospitals, trained their medics, and took complex cases out of Gaza to treat in Israeli hospitals.

I don't think that's quite accurate. Before they were destroyed, Palestine had at least seven medical schools.

If there are medical schools/universities in Palestine/Gaza, how can Gaza have been described as a concentration camp? Not by you growstuff but I find this puzzling.

growstuff

Fflaurie

Thank you Nanna 8. It is always very difficult being Jewish, but I never thought I’d be afraid to wear a Star of David in public in England in 2024. It feels that the world has forgotten or chooses to ignore what triggered this latest conflict. Isn’t lucky that the allies were not told to stop bombing Germany during WW2, the entire world would be speaking German now.

That's nonsense! There is no way that Germany could have hung on to the whole world - it couldn't even hold the fronts it had. How did bombing Dresden achieve anything? In any case, most British people do speak a derivation of German. The roots of modern English are in the language spoken by Anglo Saxons (who were German).

I have every sympathy with the discrimination shown against Jews, even though they aren't responsible for what the Israeli government is doing, but don't mention events of 80 years ago without also mentioning Zionist terrorism or West Bank settlement.

The Western world could easily have fallen to Germany if as
Fflaurie we had been told to stop bombing .So we could be speaking a mixture of English and modern German now if we hadn’t won the war.
Forget past languages, that’s a distraction from the issue.
From your comments on here there seems little sympathy for Jewish people and anyone can mention events of 80 years ago without talking of ‘Zionist terrorism’. The events of 80 years ago btw were called the Holocaust and Nazi horror as well as aggressive German expansionism.

maddyone

If there are medical schools/universities in Palestine/Gaza, how can Gaza have been described as a concentration camp? Not by you growstuff but I find this puzzling.

Gaza wasn’t a concentration camp but pro Palestinians like to style it so, it fits the narrative they push.

Quote Oreo Thu 09-May-24 08:20:26
growstuff
Fflaurie
Thank you Nanna 8. It is always very difficult being Jewish, but I never thought I’d be afraid to wear a Star of David in public in England in 2024. It feels that the world has forgotten or chooses to ignore what triggered this latest conflict. Isn’t lucky that the allies were not told to stop bombing Germany during WW2, the entire world would be speaking German now.
That's nonsense! There is no way that Germany could have hung on to the whole world - it couldn't even hold the fronts it had. How did bombing Dresden achieve anything? In any case, most British people do speak a derivation of German. The roots of modern English are in the language spoken by Anglo Saxons (who were German).

I have every sympathy with the discrimination shown against Jews, even though they aren't responsible for what the Israeli government is doing, but don't mention events of 80 years ago without also mentioning Zionist terrorism or West Bank settlement.
The Western world could easily have fallen to Germany if as
Fflaurie we had been told to stop bombing .So we could be speaking a mixture of English and modern German now if we hadn’t won the war.
Forget past languages, that’s a distraction from the issue.
From your comments on here there seems little sympathy for Jewish people and anyone can mention events of 80 years ago without talking of ‘Zionist terrorism’. The events of 80 years ago btw were called the Holocaust and Nazi horror as well as aggressive German expansionism.

Dear God, the Holocaust is called an event

Oreo

maddyone

If there are medical schools/universities in Palestine/Gaza, how can Gaza have been described as a concentration camp? Not by you growstuff but I find this puzzling.

Gaza wasn’t a concentration camp but pro Palestinians like to style it so, it fits the narrative they push.

👏👏👏

What doesn’t fit the narrative some people push is mentioning in detail what actually happened on 7/10 last year. That must not be mentioned in any detail whatsoever, even though it did actually happen and was horrific in it’s barbarity.

Oreo

maddyone

If there are medical schools/universities in Palestine/Gaza, how can Gaza have been described as a concentration camp? Not by you growstuff but I find this puzzling.

Gaza wasn’t a concentration camp but pro Palestinians like to style it so, it fits the narrative they push.

If you put a whole race of people into a contained space and refuse to allow them to leave or others to enter without undergoing severe and intrusive tests what else is it?
Are you saying you know more than the South African President and South African lawyers?

maddyone

What doesn’t fit the narrative some people push is mentioning in detail what actually happened on 7/10 last year. That must not be mentioned in any detail whatsoever, even though it did actually happen and was horrific in it’s barbarity.

I wouldn't want any of that to be forgotten but what is also not mentioned is the appalling suffering of the children injured by Israeli bombs and denied proper medical treatment.
No one has detailed any of those on these threads

Children died in the Holocaust.

Full details have been given of alleged injuries- a British surgeon allegedly spoke of - having to operate without
anaesthetic on a small girl, her face had been half blown away, a double amputation .

Do not believe it

You’re wrong Glorianny.
The suffering of Palestinian children has been regularly mentioned on these threads, including descriptions of surgery without anaesthetic, lack of drugs and medical supplies, and graphic details of injuries.
I have seen a report on television, I think it was BBC but not totally sure on that, about children being evacuated to Qatar with one adult member of their family, for advanced medical treatment. The film crew actually filmed the children being taken into a specialised medical aeroplane and then again inside the hospital in Qatar. Obviously the Israelis had to give permission for these evacuations to take place, and permission was obviously given.
We have also regularly been shown adults rushing into hospitals carrying injured children and footage of children in hospital with obvious horrible injuries. We have been told regularly about the large numbers of women and children killed.
What we are not allowed to talk about are the horrific injuries and deaths that happened on 7/10, at least not in any detail.
It is not the fault of either Israeli or Palestinian children that any of this is happening.

Anniebach

Children died in the Holocaust.

Full details have been given of alleged injuries- a British surgeon allegedly spoke of - having to operate without
anaesthetic on a small girl, her face had been half blown away, a double amputation .

Do not believe it

Many people denied what was happening when Jews were being shipped to the concentration camps. The US knew but kept the news strictly limited.

It's interesting to see that there are still people who deny the suffering of others simply because it fits their political beliefs.
No one who supports the Palestinians has (as far as I know)denied the events of 7/10

But we mustn’t speak of the details of 7/10.

Dead and injured in Gaza ? yes

The Holocaust an event ?

maddyone

You’re wrong Glorianny.
The suffering of Palestinian children has been regularly mentioned on these threads, including descriptions of surgery without anaesthetic, lack of drugs and medical supplies, and graphic details of injuries.
I have seen a report on television, I think it was BBC but not totally sure on that, about children being evacuated to Qatar with one adult member of their family, for advanced medical treatment. The film crew actually filmed the children being taken into a specialised medical aeroplane and then again inside the hospital in Qatar. Obviously the Israelis had to give permission for these evacuations to take place, and permission was obviously given.
We have also regularly been shown adults rushing into hospitals carrying injured children and footage of children in hospital with obvious horrible injuries. We have been told regularly about the large numbers of women and children killed.
What we are not allowed to talk about are the horrific injuries and deaths that happened on 7/10, at least not in any detail.
It is not the fault of either Israeli or Palestinian children that any of this is happening.

And 7/10 has been mentioned but without the details you seem to think should be repeated. It was a horrific event.

But as you can see from this thread the horror in Palestine and the treatment of Palestinian children is denied by some.
Let's not forget that this war has been happening for over 6 months and only recently have any film crews had access.

Why should Israel have to give permission for children they have injured to be evacuated to receive medical treatment. Can you think of any other country where this would happen? Do the Russians have to give permission for Ukranian children to be treated?