Another Tired Kicking For The Sick And Disabled By Rishi

She gets disability benefits as well maddyone. It is clear to everyone she shouldn't have to produce a sick note, she still has to. It is the rules

It’s like a bloody rotation of ‘everything we’ve messed up is other people’s fault’… ‘scroungers’…the EU…immigrants…strikers…immigrants…’still the EU…’scroungers’…

It’s obvious JaneJudge that your daughter shouldn’t have to produce a sick note every three months. Surely she should be on disability benefits. My DiL’s nephew has Downs Syndrome and doesn’t have to continually produce sick notes. He is disabled and his mother is his carer. He is nineteen.

Parsley3 👍

That's true maddyone, people like my daughter me who has the mental age of a two year old having to produce sick notes every 3 months so she gets her universal credit

Sunak is appealing to those I'm all right Jacks who have no understanding of how other people have to struggle with ill health or just down right bad luck. How low is he going to sink after this?

Interesting letter from the GP Urmstongran.

I believe that this new directive (or whatever it is) is not directed at those who are in employment, and are suffering sickness, but it is directed towards people who don’t work at all and claim benefits. I maybe wrong but that’s how I read it.
I do know that significant numbers of people who are in their 50/60s have not returned to work since the pandemic. I don’t know what their reasons are but I know that government is concerned about this. I also know that there are a significant number of younger people who have never had a job of any sort since the pandemic and live on benefits or are dependent on their parents. I suspect theses two groups are the ones government have in their sights. I have to say I have no idea what the answer to this is, but clearly we do need people to go to work and to pay taxes so that those in need can be paid the benefits they legitimately need.

according to the daily mail you just call your dr reception and they give you a sick note and you get loads of free government money

I don;t know why we aren't all doing it, sounds so easy and who would sniff at this free money

Nanatoone, you are absolutely right.

As a teacher you are aware of the families who avoid work and exploit the benefit system; their parents would be horrified if they realised quite how much their children know and innocently pass on, but knowing and proving it are two different things.
It is these families who are being targeted, not the genuinely ill and disabled. And their doctors know it too.

And the response to this will be: 'they are only doing it for their families.'

The government wants to reduce the cost of Welfare Benefits, so is now targeting the long-term sick and disabled as malingerers. True compassion.

People can be genuinely unable to work for many reasons. Long Covid and delays in getting NHS treatment are two of the major factors for the increase in claimants.

A GP’s sick note is just the starting point to claim benefits and is followed by assessments and frequent meetings with a work coach, with sanctions for those who do not attend( even if they are in hospital!) I have little faith that the proposed support for mental health will be forthcoming. Sanctions are easier and cheaper to implement.
If they cut out the GP’s opinion, as is proposed, we are reliant on poorly-trained, target-driven assessors, who do not know the claimant’s history. The system does not serve them well, given the huge number of appeals against bad decisions and long delays.
The NHS is on its knees, but let’s blame the patients, why not?

There will be people swinging the lead in every walk of life, not just teaching.

I think this is the fundamental point nannatone was making. I don't think mentioning the teaching profession meant she only meant teachers.

So sad to read about people being described as " flakes" With any umbrella system, there will be the odd few who abuse it. I've seen it with my own eyes for example at a Foodbank.

But most people, especially teachers are hardworking, decent people.
Many have been driven to the edge by the sheer stress of surviving. Austerity, the pandemic, increased work loads, high mortgage payments, it doesn't take much to enter a down ward spriral of poor health.

Gone are the days when colleagues rallied round, sent flowers and so on. Its every person for her/ himself.

Goodness - this letter to the Editor from The Telegraph newspaper was an eye opener!

“ SIR – As a GP I very much welcome Rishi Sunak’s proposals to remove from GPs the task of signing sick notes (report, April 19).

In a 10-minute consultation it is almost impossible to assess thoroughly a person’s fitness for work, especially if the problem is related to mental health or stress. The GP – whom the patient feels should be on their side – is placed in a very difficult position. The result is that many doctors avoid a long and difficult argument with the patient by caving in and signing, even when they don’t feel the note is justified. Many people are now off work on the basis of a brief phone consultation.

I have had patients tell me that their back pain is so bad they can barely move or walk – only to see them later in the week lifting heavy bags of shopping at the supermarket with apparently no difficulty at all. I have also had patients come from the benefits office, where they have been told to get their doctor to sign them off sick as they will receive more money than on unemployment benefit and won’t then have to look for work.”

Nanatoone: Please try your best to understand that despite the so-called “robust” procedures, there are people swinging the lead and they are well. I find your comment quite patronising.
There will be people swinging the lead in every walk of life, not just teaching.
It is the responsibility of senior management in your daughter's school to address it.

I would not wish those interviews with clinicians, LA HR and DWP, staff on anyone. I can assure you they were extremely robust and upsetting.
Fortunately my husband, a former LA HR manager was my advocate and able to speak for me. I was in tears much of the time and couldn't cope. Ten years later, I still can't bear to think about it.
Your information comes from your daughter, my experience is personal.

You have absoluely no conception of what the procedures are.

Fair enough but who decides who is genuinely ill and who is swinging the lead? It's extremely hard to discern and is most certainly a job for qualified medical professionals ie doctors not some sort of renamed civil service functionary.

It’s not ‘a kicking for the sick and disabled’, it’s a kicking for those who can work but don’t want to. And rightly so.

Freya, even a spoiled ballot paper is a vote. It expresses the disgust with politicians that many people are feeling right now. Please use your vote even if it's only to express your anger.

Cossy, what you describe is unheard of in this school. As to being unsympathetic and non empathetic I find that ridiculous. I am making the point that people who are not sick and are pretending to be ill are causing issues. Not those with genuine illnesses. Try not to read into my words that which I do not mean. I am a migraine sufferer and know what it’s like, I have never once pretended to have one but if some of them have them as often as claim, they really should see a doctor. I have preventers and medications to help when I have one, I have learnt to live with it. It’s hard to talk to people who have a set idea of how people are just because of how they themselves are. Please do not insult my dedicated and wonderful daughter, she’s a fantastic teacher and has to manage this situation daily. It’s not easy and the time wasters need to stop. Why would you not want the best for the the next generation?

I wish people would not conflate their own situation with that described. Of course people get sick, my own daughter had long Covid and was in and out for weeks trying to get back. I clearly mean those who do not want to be there, why they are taking up a role they don’t enjoy or wish to do I do not know. I know very well how difficult it is to be a teacher, it’s got harder and harder over time, especially after lockdown as the behaviour has become worse in most schools. However, schools are there to teach our children and grandchildren and need the best and most dedicated people. There are many reasons why it is hard to retain staff and people taking a lot of time off sick are impacting the ones who are in every day. The nett effect is that other teachers fall ill with exhaustion. Please try your best to understand that despite the so-called “robust” procedures, there are people swinging the lead and they are well
known by the rest of the staff. I think the attitude that all those who say they are sick, are actually Ill and not just sick of the job is naive.

Marydoll - I too refused the sickness leave advised by my GP, only accepting it when RA meant I couldn’t drive, write etc
A year later I was given early retirement on health grounds. I’d planned to work two more years. It was a grim year and luckily my manager knew me well so no suggestion I was a flake

Nanatoone, for your information, I too was a member of the management team in an area of high deprivation, so I shall remain on my soapbox, because I have first hand experience at the chalkface and managing staff.
Staff are entitled to their privacy, so others ( your daughter included) may not know the full story.

No-one goes off sick for a year, (resulting in having no income) without good reason.
As I have said, there are robust procedures in place to root out malingerers. I know from experience. I would rather have been at work, than experience those interviews. It was awful.

I initially went to work, despite my consultant advising me to take a week off. The following week, he signed me off work for six weeks.

A weak man grasping at straws to bolster his flagging reputation.

Nanatoone

Touched a few nerves today. My daughter goes to work through thick and thin. Last week she was very unwell and went in every day, including to cover for the migraine sufferer (my daughter, like me suffers from migraine) and to cover the six times now Covid sufferer, who works two days a week, but is more often off than in. I do not disparage genuinely sick people but seriously, get off your soap box and recognise how easy it is to avoid work and get paid. The impact on the rest of the staff is appalling. Please try to recognise that not all sickness is genuine.

I worked for the DWP for 14 years, about the same amount of time I was a school governor. I can assure you both schools and the DWP HR and sickness policies are extremely robust as well as most schools and all public sector departments having extremely strict sickness policies and processes. The majority of sickness now for both working and non-working people is most definitely genuine and everyone off due to sickness has to attend regular (and in some cases weekly) interviews. It’s possible to be disciplined for being off sick or even dismissed, even where sickness is completely genuine. It’s acceptable under employment law if it can be proven that person is no longer capable of doing their job or has been off sick too many times.

I’ve covered for sick colleagues, without complaint, as they have for me!

One of my colleagues, now a close friend, suffers from migraines which prevent her driving, using a computer screen, in fact doing anything at all aside from sleeping in a darkened room, she’s far from a “ flake”

I find yours and your daughters attitudes utterly lacking in empathy and compassion.

All Sunak has (ever had) in his derisive political toolbox was culture war. This is just a new (and spiteful) face of that. Thankfully, barring a major disaster, it doesn’t matter what he threatens, as he won’t be in government to enact it.

If you decide not to vote, then you have no say in any decisions which are then made. I don't understand why you wouldn't vote, given that women weren't allowed to for so long. Cutting off your nose to spite your face, it seems.
As a (retired) English teacher, when teaching how to write discursive essays, I always said, 'One example does not make an argument.' Where is the research? Sources?
It strikes me that Rishi Sunak is attacking those who can't fight back. As the husband of a billionaire, I doubt he's ever had to worry about being off long term from work. Most, if not all of his off the cuff policy changes/statements show an appalling lack of empathy. They haven't been discussed in parliament either. And the comments about 'half are suffering from anxiety or depression' fails to take into account that this is a secondary reason to a physical ailment.