Another Tired Kicking For The Sick And Disabled By Rishi

Whiff I think you have put your finger on the nub of the problem with our current political system in the UK and elsewhere.

Once the majority of MPs came to the House of Commons after a working life in every aspect of the economy and once started were in it for the long term. They did much less constituency work but brought to the Commons a wealth of experience.

Nowadays politics is a young man's game. They come in in to Parliament in their late 20s-early 30s and leave to pursue other paths, hopefully smoothed by their political careers, by the time they are 50. they are far more focussed on using their political career to further their larger career ambitions than serving the country.

Oh for the days when politicians did real jobs before becoming MPs . I mean all parties jobs where they got their hands dirty or where they dealt with the general public everyday. And worked for years and lived on real wages . No straight from uni to being MPs . Having real life experience would make them rethink how they make their policies. Plus having a normal salary not the inflated ones they have now.

I know that's naive wish but it would mean we would have MPs who where down to earth . And not living in the lap of luxury .

As you can tell not a political person. But I always vote as it took women a long time to get it. If you don't vote then you can't complain about who gets into power or there policies .

There is so much wrong with this set of statistics. It has grouped together statiatics from several different sources with different methods of collection and definition. The last bar makes it clear that they were collected and compended by a group with an axe to grind and a proposition it has to prove and that the last bar of all or them really is highly suspect.

I could concoct a bar chart to prove almost anything, providing showing where i got the numbers from, how reliable they were, and explaining what i did with them was not necessary.

They are the kind of statistics conspiracy theorists love.

What is the point of posting something, if you do not know what the figures are or where they come from.

Chardy

Germanshepherdsmum

As Chardy said herself, she doesn’t know enough about it.

My comment about not knowing enough about 'it' referred to individuals sending money abroad to avoid paying UK tax.
And it was HMRC who coined the Tax Avoidance tag with the estimate of how much it was costing UK. Yes I do know the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance.
Lastly the bar chart neatly shows where there is money (and how much) that could be collected and it isn't in the benefits area.

It doesn't show anything clearly because the two estimates, from two different sources, differ wildly.

Lumping together legal tax avoidance, tax evasion and tax uncollected for whatever reason in this chart is meaningless.

It doesn’t. It doesn’t distinguish between tax avoidance and tax evasion and only HMRC’s estimate is credible.

Germanshepherdsmum

As Chardy said herself, she doesn’t know enough about it.

My comment about not knowing enough about 'it' referred to individuals sending money abroad to avoid paying UK tax.
And it was HMRC who coined the Tax Avoidance tag with the estimate of how much it was costing UK. Yes I do know the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance.
Lastly the bar chart neatly shows where there is money (and how much) that could be collected and it isn't in the benefits area.

I worked for a couple of years helping disabled people into work. I think the big thing that made a difference was people-hours to support them, help them learn their new job, help them arrange personal assistance at work etc, also to meet up with employers & persuade them to look beyond the disability to the long-term potential of an individual. Out of about 45 people on my caseload I had one person who immediately stuck out as not actually wanting to work, but to play the system. Just one. Sometimes the support would be to take the bus with them on their first morning , & arrange a colleague to meet them off the bus that first week, as everyday things become a huge barrier if you haven't done them for ages.I don't know that just assessing people & giving them a bit of careers guidance is going to be enough to get people successfully back to the workplace, & I also worry about what it will mean for people's benefits.I do think that the GP sicknotes system for long term sickness could do with changing though.

Germanshepherdsmum

*Chardy*, your chart includes tax avoided, which is entirely lawful, so is somewhat meaningless.

That would include me, then.

Two ISAs. Not that much in any of them but perhaps enough to pay for two knee operations if the NHS don't deliver.

She is in good company. That applies to quite a number of posts on GN.

As Chardy said herself, she doesn’t know enough about it.

Chardy Does the table you published take into account profits earned by British companies abroad where the tax is paid on those profits in the UK? How does this balance out? Do we know what proportion of that bar on the table is tax avoidance and how much is tax eveasion? 1%?, 10%?. 50%?

You realise that if you save some money into an ISA that that is tax avoidance? In fact if an individual or a company uses any tax examption scheme announced by the Chancellor in the Budget, that is tax avoidance. Gift Aid is also tax avoidance.

In this year's budget the Chancellor announced that comapnies involved in Research and development could charge some of the expenditure there against tax. This again is tax avoidance. Many of the reliefs given to businesses during COVID could be classed as tax avoidance.

Bar graphs may look pretty, but unless they are accompanied by a a definition of what is included in each bar they are meaningless.

There have been some staggering awful posts/threads on MN this week around PIP reforms.

Not helped by the government misinforming people that they want to get more people into work, and PIP reforms are the way forward.🙄. Making it sound as though PIP is only paid to those that don’t work.

PIP isn’t and never has been an “out of work benefit”. Its paid for the extra cost of disability, as DLA was. Plenty work and claim PIP.

But, some of the comments have been dreadful, particularly around mental health.

Disableism is alive and well in the UK.☹️

I hope they can help veejay. Let us know how you get on

I emailed Mel Stride this morning.and got an email straight back thanking and to say they would be in touch
Within the.next hour I received another email asking for my sons name address and date of birth
Will see what the next move is will update then

Germanshepherdsmum

*Chardy*, your chart includes tax avoided, which is entirely lawful, so is somewhat meaningless.

My understanding is that Tax Justice Network's use of tax avoidance is about those companies who make profits in UK but pay their tax abroad. If that tax were to be paid where they make their profits...etc etc.
I assume individuals can do that too, but frankly I don't know enough about it.

I do hope you feel that you have "back up", by the time this phone call happens.

Sneaky, isn't it, getting the idea into peoples heads that they are being assessed as fit or not for work?

Hopefully, you will talk to someone with some common sense and empathy, because there are some DWP employees who have those traits.

I have phoned the dwp.they say it isn't a capability for work assessment just to make sure he's getting yhr right amount of money. Yeah right.so why call it that.
The person I spoke to said its me they want to talk to as I am zn appointee to speak for him.he said this will happen every year.
I told him my son will never work again and they know that by all the hospital/ Gp records, so why not say its indefinite
I will take the call. and strangely its on a Sunday in May
I will also tell them no he isn't getting what he's entitled to.because he darent risk them stopping what he gets while yhey look into it
I am still going to ring my mp.or /and email Mel Stride again
My Mp did help last time.which is unusual as he's known for not doing much for the town
He even asked for my sons NI insurance no and name and address
Here's hoping !!

Veejay, I hope your MP can help. It is such a worry x I hope your sons condition becomes more manageable as well, it sounds very upsetting and difficult

I hope you'll let us know how you get on, veejay.
Whatever the differing views on here, nobody would possibly want to hear of a frail person being hounded by the dwp.

I don't know if you have tried at all, but I spoke to someone on a citizens advice helpline who was marvellous.

She pointed me in the right direction and "coached"me a little.
(Not in how to "fiddle" the system)
She explained that whoever I spoke to had an agenda, which was to get me back to work, even though I was not at all well enough.

Without her words ringing in my ears I would have laid back and well... I really don't know, because I couldn't work, not for love nor money.

I hope you can find someone similar to help you and your son.

My MP

Thank you everyone who has replied
First thing in the morning I an going to ring the dwp .then go from there I may also contact my mo again too
I can't let them out my son through all this stress again
I will update when I have something to report
He was already on UC and pip,because of ill health before his stroke ,but the stroke was the last straw really and his weight had already dropped,he now weighs less than 8 St from the last assessment due to all the stress.and worrying how he would pay rent and bills etc
I didn't think he would lose his UC ,but the threat of it was very worrying for him

Chardy, your chart includes tax avoided, which is entirely lawful, so is somewhat meaningless.

Surely a teacher who is off sick for more than 6 months goes onto half pay, and has interviews with... is it Occupational Therapy?

I have been in that position. I had interviews with the HT, Occupational Health Officer and the L.A doctor. I wanted to get back to work and lived in hope that I would get better, but eventually I accepted that I would never improve.
I certainly wasn't a malingerer.

My concern about sick pay etc is that all benefit claimants are being targeted to allegedly target a few.

Nanatoone

One thing I do know for sure. My daughter is a senior teacher and she has so many staff on the sick. One hasn’t been in in over a year and others are always off with “Covid” a “migraine” and other unidentifiable stuff. Sick days are a real problem and so many people are flakes. The impact on the rest of the staff and the children is dreadful. I don’t know if this has anything whatsoever to do with what Rishi said, but it’s high on my agenda.

Surely a teacher who is off sick for more than 6 months goes onto half pay, and has interviews with... is it Occupational Therapy? It certainly used to be the rule, and given the current state of education, I doubt the rules have relaxed. Maybe she's a senior teacher for a Trust or a private school - different rules?
I used to do the cover for medium-sized secondary school. Teaching is a stressful business. Yes some staff are off more than others, but I genuinely didn't have any malingerers.