The majority of Israeli Jews do not want to occupy Gaza.

Caleo

Not to occupy Gaza.

It's definitive of a Jew not to steal or covet, Deuteronomy 32.36
Leviticus 19.18.

Netanyahu is no Jew but is the head of an extreme Right Wing political party.

Christians and Muslims are required not to steal or covet too.
Doesn’t stop it happening tho.
Netanyahu is Jewish, no doubts there but like many, may be a secular Jew.

Not to occupy Gaza.

It's definitive of a Jew not to steal or covet, Deuteronomy 32.36
Leviticus 19.18.

Netanyahu is no Jew but is the head of an extreme Right Wing political party.

This article looks at the economic consequences to the region.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68884729

It's important because in terms of any recovery, of the ability of the people to rebuild the means to grow food or earn a living, has been set back even further. I'd say investment in that is, after immediate emergency aid, is central to any kind of peace.

Whitewavemark2

I have been listening to the ex-heads of MI5 and MI6.

Both agree that Israeli have overreacted in Gaza to their detriment.

That's interesting, WWM, How weary civilians on both sides of the borders must be, wanting just to live ordinary lives.

Katie59

Whitewavemark2

Both heads of security services also emphasised the risk that Muslim agents and U.K. spies daily risk their lives to keep the U.K. safe.

They suggested that without these brave people help our lives would be far less secure.

We underestimate the amount of surveillance activity the security services do to keep us safe in the UK. Without them we would probably have terrorist attacks every week.

And the threat from the Islamic terrorists are largely mitigated from the work that Muslim agents carry out at apparently huge and frequently fatal risk.

Whitewavemark2

Both heads of security services also emphasised the risk that Muslim agents and U.K. spies daily risk their lives to keep the U.K. safe.

They suggested that without these brave people help our lives would be far less secure.

We underestimate the amount of surveillance activity the security services do to keep us safe in the UK. Without them we would probably have terrorist attacks every week.

Both heads of security services also emphasised the risk that Muslim agents and U.K. spies daily risk their lives to keep the U.K. safe.

They suggested that without these brave people help our lives would be far less secure.

I have been listening to the ex-heads of MI5 and MI6.

Both agree that Israeli have overreacted in Gaza to their detriment.

Could be the same British doctor who said in January how he
had to operate on a small child half her face blown away , there
was no anaesthetic yet he amputated both legs,this was posted
by a regular on GransNet.

Hamas claims yet again

I’m suspicious of the move away from oil,too. Global warming ? Maybe. Maybe not.

Wyllow3

"The US and Europe haven't exactly covered themselves in glory by treating the Middle East as an oil field with populations who don't matter.”

Oh so true Katie.

Yes, I think Biden is managing to steer the US through complex matters atm and hope there is no regime change there.

The West, including the UK has exploited resources of other countries for centuries without much benefit to the local population. Our lifestyle today has been built on exploiting other poorer countries, our public services depend on continuing that exploitation. Today the big exploiter is China which is even worse because they do not try to influence local politics. This has resulted in most of the resource revenue being pocketed by corrupt governments and not improving lives of the population.

For what it’s worth I would be surprised if Trump actually contests let alone wins the US election, the court action will certainly erode his voters and likely see him convicted, the odds are stacking against him.

Just seen this report on ITV news, he begs international observers to come in to see for themselves. (He's a British doctor working for international agency)

www.itv.com/news/2024-04-24/i-operated-without-anaesthetic-british-surgeons-harrowing-gaza-account

"The US and Europe haven't exactly covered themselves in glory by treating the Middle East as an oil field with populations who don't matter.”

Oh so true Katie.

Yes, I think Biden is managing to steer the US through complex matters atm and hope there is no regime change there.

Oreo

foxie48

maddyone

Oreo

Of course most Israelis don’t want to take over or live in Gaza, they want to live peacefully in Israel.
It’s not surprising tho, that they want Gaza to be handed over to an International Force rather than the Palestinian Authority.

This.

The majority do but unfortunately that is not true of them all or there would not have been a very significant number of illegal settlements in the West Bank or groups planning settlements in Gaza. I'm sure you are aware of this, it has been widely reported.

That’s why I used the word most
I’m as aware as anyone else what has been reported but a few blowhards dreaming of a luxury apartment by the sea in Gaza fortunately don’t get to set their agenda.

Nobody knows that yet.

Katie59

“No international force is going to pour billions into Gaza and the West Bank without something in return, which could be political power and a say what happens in the region. Israel distrusts the UN, so any grouping would have to be politically and ideologically neutral and be respected. I really can't think of any countries which would be acceptable to Israel and Palestine. The US and Europe haven't exactly coveredthemselves in glory by treating the Middle East as an oil field with populations who don't matter.”

The one, possibly the only country willing to spend money is the US, not for tangible gain but to keep the peace, that’s pretty much what they are doing now. As you say I really dont see any foreign country wanting to get involved in policing Gaza or indeed the West Bank, the moderates on both sides have got to work together for peace.

I really can't see that happening, especially if Trump does win the election.

Just want to say I appreciate this thread with detailed discussion on realities going forward.

You are right growstuff that Israel was not some easy peaceful transition, terrorists on both sides active and events like the King David Hotel Bombing en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

“No international force is going to pour billions into Gaza and the West Bank without something in return, which could be political power and a say what happens in the region. Israel distrusts the UN, so any grouping would have to be politically and ideologically neutral and be respected. I really can't think of any countries which would be acceptable to Israel and Palestine. The US and Europe haven't exactly coveredthemselves in glory by treating the Middle East as an oil field with populations who don't matter.”

The one, possibly the only country willing to spend money is the US, not for tangible gain but to keep the peace, that’s pretty much what they are doing now. As you say I really dont see any foreign country wanting to get involved in policing Gaza or indeed the West Bank, the moderates on both sides have got to work together for peace.

foxie48

maddyone

Oreo

Of course most Israelis don’t want to take over or live in Gaza, they want to live peacefully in Israel.
It’s not surprising tho, that they want Gaza to be handed over to an International Force rather than the Palestinian Authority.

This.

The majority do but unfortunately that is not true of them all or there would not have been a very significant number of illegal settlements in the West Bank or groups planning settlements in Gaza. I'm sure you are aware of this, it has been widely reported.

That’s why I used the word most
I’m as aware as anyone else what has been reported but a few blowhards dreaming of a luxury apartment by the sea in Gaza fortunately don’t get to set their agenda.

Katie59

The ideas of Hamas cannot be extinguished but the can be controlled, there are terrorist groups across the globe that would cause trouble if they could.

Who will provide security for Gaza, forget the US they would be continual hostility Arab Terrorists hate the US almost as much as Israel. The UN have never been effective against terrorists and I dont see Israel trusting any Pan Arab force.

So we come back to Israel having to do it themselves, once the war is won Netanyahu will go, then it’s up to Israel to elect a moderate government. Just like Europe after WW2 the 2 sides will have to learn to get on with each other or we will just be back to square one in 20 yrs time

The two "sides" in Europe after WW2 had a shared cultural background, The two sides in the Middle East never did get on with it - in fact, the creation of the state of Israel on former Palestinian land made things worse.

My father flew RAF transport planes into Palestine (when the UK still had the mandate) until 1947, when the state of Israel was declared by the Israelis when no agreement could be reached. He saw what was going on and reckoned it was more dangerous than a bombing raid over Germany (which is saying something). A cousin of his was murdered by Zionist terrorists. The situation has been controlled (usually) by American money, but I really can't see a solution.

No international force is going to pour billions into Gaza and the West Bank without something in return, which could be political power and a say what happens in the region. Israel distrusts the UN, so any grouping would have to be politically and ideologically neutral and be respected. I really can't think of any countries which would be acceptable to Israel and Palestine. The US and Europe haven't exactly covered themselves in glory by treating the Middle East as an oil field with populations who don't matter.

Sorry, occupy, meaning live there

The majority of Jews do not want to occur Gaza just as we are told the majority of Palestinians are not Hamas supporters.

The illegal settlements and land occupation begun in 1967, and grown.

Will Israel pledge under international rule to stop the settlements?

Other wise talking about peace and resolution in the region is pointless. If the current regime think that the international community is there just to keep order and feed refugees/build homes whilst Palestinians have no powers to decide their own destiny then is this going to work?

The war is about to be taken to Rafah, imminently - plans afoot as in

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68888299

(Rafah is the very southernmost city right on the border with Egypt)

maddyone

Oreo

Of course most Israelis don’t want to take over or live in Gaza, they want to live peacefully in Israel.
It’s not surprising tho, that they want Gaza to be handed over to an International Force rather than the Palestinian Authority.

This.

The majority do but unfortunately that is not true of them all or there would not have been a very significant number of illegal settlements in the West Bank or groups planning settlements in Gaza. I'm sure you are aware of this, it has been widely reported.

Oreo

Of course most Israelis don’t want to take over or live in Gaza, they want to live peacefully in Israel.
It’s not surprising tho, that they want Gaza to be handed over to an International Force rather than the Palestinian Authority.

This.

The ideas of Hamas cannot be extinguished but the can be controlled, there are terrorist groups across the globe that would cause trouble if they could.

Who will provide security for Gaza, forget the US they would be continual hostility Arab Terrorists hate the US almost as much as Israel. The UN have never been effective against terrorists and I dont see Israel trusting any Pan Arab force.

So we come back to Israel having to do it themselves, once the war is won Netanyahu will go, then it’s up to Israel to elect a moderate government. Just like Europe after WW2 the 2 sides will have to learn to get on with each other or we will just be back to square one in 20 yrs time