Angela Rayner lashes out and calls Sunak “pint sized loser”.

I will happily condemn Emily Thornberry for the photo.

Germanshepherdsmum

I will happily condemn Emily Thornberry for the photo.

Which implies that you object to people sneering at the working classes.

In which case your hypocrisy is a bit staggering...

PMQs is just a weekly pantomime of members of different sides taking shots at one another….

I don’t entirely agree. I think it’s one if the few chances anyone has to see the extent to which the PM (or deputy) are on top of their brief, and how they respond when pressed, which is borne out by

One thing Rayner doesn’t do is shrink from a challenge - as Dowden so clearly did yesterday

He was unable to respond because he’s not terribly competent, is part of a government which has failed to deliver on the issue being discussed, and was under-prepared, all things which it’s useful for the electorate to be able to witness.

Siope

^PMQs is just a weekly pantomime of members of different sides taking shots at one another….^

I don’t entirely agree. I think it’s one if the few chances anyone has to see the extent to which the PM (or deputy) are on top of their brief, and how they respond when pressed, which is borne out by

One thing Rayner doesn’t do is shrink from a challenge - as Dowden so clearly did yesterday

He was unable to respond because he’s not terribly competent, is part of a government which has failed to deliver on the issue being discussed, and was under-prepared, all things which it’s useful for the electorate to be able to witness.

I totally agree Siope, all this gov't have failed to deliver unless you're a billionaire, Dowden is just one of so many lack lustre politicians in the Tory party

Not at all Maizie. I come from a working class family. I have praised Alan Johnson who came from arguably even worse circumstances than Rayner but worked hard to fit in and did so admirably. I have had to work hard to fit in, not having been to university and being entirely self-taught in the law. What I criticise about Rayner is her belief that continuing to speak and behave as she does is acceptable for someone in her position. It isn’t.

Rayner isn’t per se “working class”, I’d argue she is “classless”. She is feisty like many but her aperture on life is limited and chippy, parochial. Hopefully as time goes by she will mellow as her brand of class warfare is not what Britain in 2024 needs.

This is a quote from a comment in The Times and I think worth considering.

She has no class, that’s for sure.

TinSoldier Pint-sized is not a derogatory term.
I have no problem with AR's roots, accent or life experiences, but I will criticise her for her use of these words. I don't like comments referring to somebody's size or shape. Criticise their stated beliefs, their actions etc . You can't believe that she used 'pint-sized' with any other intention than as an insult, why mention his size at all? What purpose did it serve? Would she have mentioned it if he was 6'2"? I don't believe she would.

GSM
What is detrimental is her refusal to speak as befits her position. That doesn’t involve speaking with a cut-glass accent. I have made several references to the similarity of Alan Johnson’s background and the way that he made himself into someone who could converse with anyone and gain their respect. Rayner has made no effort whatsoever to do that. Strangely, none of her supporters will comment on the gulf between Johnson and Rayner. The one a gentleman, the other reminiscent of a fishwife.

Why should anyone have to ‘make themselves’ into someone else? No-one needs to change who they are because of others’ bigotry. AR is perfectly capable of conversing with anyone; if they cannot show her respect because of the way she speaks then, IMO, the problem lays with them … not with AR. The gulf you refer to between AJ and AR is, of course, based on your opinion, not fact.

Boz

Rayner isn’t per se “working class”, I’d argue she is “classless”. She is feisty like many but her aperture on life is limited and chippy, parochial. Hopefully as time goes by she will mellow as her brand of class warfare is not what Britain in 2024 needs.

This is a quote from a comment in The Times and I think worth considering.

I can remember the same being said about John Prescott - another “working class” deputy PM.

All a load of hot air then as it is now.

I always tip a grin at those declaring the “they have no “class”, as though the one declaring this profound statement is the arbinger of what does or does not constitute class in the snobby sense of the word.

Not sure why the computer put arbinger when I thought I typed arbiter

LizzieDrip

GSM
What is detrimental is her refusal to speak as befits her position. That doesn’t involve speaking with a cut-glass accent. I have made several references to the similarity of Alan Johnson’s background and the way that he made himself into someone who could converse with anyone and gain their respect. Rayner has made no effort whatsoever to do that. Strangely, none of her supporters will comment on the gulf between Johnson and Rayner. The one a gentleman, the other reminiscent of a fishwife.

Why should anyone have to ‘make themselves’ into someone else? No-one needs to change who they are because of others’ bigotry. AR is perfectly capable of conversing with anyone; if they cannot show her respect because of the way she speaks then, IMO, the problem lays with them … not with AR. The gulf you refer to between AJ and AR is, of course, based on your opinion, not fact.

Every word of this!

LizzieDrip

GSM
What is detrimental is her refusal to speak as befits her position. That doesn’t involve speaking with a cut-glass accent. I have made several references to the similarity of Alan Johnson’s background and the way that he made himself into someone who could converse with anyone and gain their respect. Rayner has made no effort whatsoever to do that. Strangely, none of her supporters will comment on the gulf between Johnson and Rayner. The one a gentleman, the other reminiscent of a fishwife.

Why should anyone have to ‘make themselves’ into someone else? No-one needs to change who they are because of others’ bigotry. AR is perfectly capable of conversing with anyone; if they cannot show her respect because of the way she speaks then, IMO, the problem lays with them … not with AR. The gulf you refer to between AJ and AR is, of course, based on your opinion, not fact.

The gulf between Johnson and Rayner is based on fact. I assume you don’t remember him?

Prescott was a thug, wwm.

GSM perhaps you could enlighten me with the facts supporting your statement that ‘Johnson is a gentleman; Rayner is reminiscent of a fish wife’.

Germanshepherdsmum

Prescott was a thug, wwm.

Just not as much of one as Lee Anderson, and had somewhat more upstairs, as well as having a great sense of humour.

Not everyone thinks like I do, (probably just as well!), and I quite like people who speak strongly and say it as it is.
But why can't this be done intelligently and without insults?

Do you not remember Alan Johnson Lizzie? He served as Sec of State for Education, Sec of State for Health and Home Secretary and is now chancellor of a university.

having somewhat more upstairs
Now, that might be getting closer, though difficult to measure this.

I don’t know why you bring Anderson into it Casdon. Do you think I am a supporter of his? You couldn’t be more wrong.

He was a very recent deputy chairman of the Conservative Party *Germanshepherdsmum that was the purpose of the comparison, not to imply that you personally supported him?

I know he was - and didn’t last long. He came from Labour of course.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/25/lee-anderson-from-labour-councillor-to-labour-wind-up-merchant
He was suspended by Ashfield Council when he took the law into his own hands and placed boulders at the entrance of a potential traveller site. He defected to the Tories, became an MP, where his behaviour ultimately resulted in a repeat of similar behaviour. Far worse than anything Angela Rayner or John Prescott seem to be accused of.

Don’t you remember Prescott punching someone? But let’s be clear, I have never supported Anderson or Prescott.

I don’t know why you bring Alan Johnson into this at all GSM. You could selectively compare any two people and find one of them lacking in some quality that you yourself admire - it’s completely subjective and adds nothing to the discussion. I imagine many of us admire Alan Johnson, but that has nothing to do with opinions on Angela Rayner.

It would be interesting, though not relevant, to know what Alan Johnson thinks of Angela Rayner, and of the concept of “fitting in”.