Angela Rayner lashes out and calls Sunak “pint sized loser”.

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you not remember Alan Johnson Lizzie? He served as Sec of State for Education, Sec of State for Health and Home Secretary and is now chancellor of a university.

Yes, many of us have read his autobiographies, in fact I have a signed copy of his first book.

Good post Delila👏👏👏

Rosie51

TinSoldier Pint-sized is not a derogatory term.
I have no problem with AR's roots, accent or life experiences, but I will criticise her for her use of these words. I don't like comments referring to somebody's size or shape. Criticise their stated beliefs, their actions etc . You can't believe that she used 'pint-sized' with any other intention than as an insult, why mention his size at all? What purpose did it serve? Would she have mentioned it if he was 6'2"? I don't believe she would.

I'm with you on this Rosie. A person cannot help their race or their height, so to mock someone's height is like mocking their race, very wrong. Mocking their weight is generally not acceptable, and yet it's quite okay to mock their height (whether short or tall). I think this is totally wrong and hope this will change.

So many people have wronged Rayner, then.
Mocking, referring to things that she has had no control over.
Speculating that she wears no knickers, and so on...

Yes GSM I do remember Alan Johnson and thought him a decent person. He obviously felt, for his own personal reasons, that he had to ‘change’ in order to ‘fit in’. I’m not saying he was right or wrong - it was his choice. But I am saying it shouldn’t be necessary to feel one must do that; Angela Rayner has chosen to remain true to herself, take her or leave her, and I admire that. I’m a bit the same myself. Working class northern lass; pregnant at 16; left school with a few O levels; went back into education via night school (remember that) then on to Uni (when there was still a grant); gained a first; taught for 30 years, eventually lecturing in a Uni. I haven’t changed anything about myself in order to ‘fit in’ - although I have experienced imposter syndrome at times, but have told it to f**k off

I bring AJ into this to illustrate the difference between two Labour politicians who came from nothing. It’s pretty stark.

Chestnut

Rosie51

TinSoldier Pint-sized is not a derogatory term.
I have no problem with AR's roots, accent or life experiences, but I will criticise her for her use of these words. I don't like comments referring to somebody's size or shape. Criticise their stated beliefs, their actions etc . You can't believe that she used 'pint-sized' with any other intention than as an insult, why mention his size at all? What purpose did it serve? Would she have mentioned it if he was 6'2"? I don't believe she would.

I'm with you on this Rosie. A person cannot help their race or their height, so to mock someone's height is like mocking their race, very wrong. Mocking their weight is generally not acceptable, and yet it's quite okay to mock their height (whether short or tall). I think this is totally wrong and hope this will change.

Imagine if a Conservative MP made fun of AR’s breast implants during a parliamentary session. All hell really would break loose and all her supporters would be squealing “unfair.”

She shouldn't have said that. It isn't fair to make personal comments and yes, if someone made a remark like that about a woman's personage it would cause uproar. Men should be accorded equivalent respect. Having said this, the trend in politics it seems is to be rude, to lie and do what the hell you feel like as long as you can hang on to power and serve yourself. Johnson seems to me to have spearheaded this, but he can't be blamed for the way MPs seem to be slipping into the gutter. After 2019 I would have been delighted if my crystal ball had shown Labour making such a comeback. Not so now! I think there's little to choose between them. It's very sad and I fear for all those on NHS waiting lists, living in mouldy accommodation (or on the streets), young people trying to get mortgages or all the other ills that seem to be growing by the day.

In her position, Lizzie, I think it’s a basic courtesy to others to make an effort to fit in. You can still remain true to yourself, as I have.

Goodness, for one breathtaking minute I thought the 'Johnson' being referred to as a GENTLEMAN was Boris!
That'll teach me to scroll backwards!

Germanshepherdsmum

I bring AJ into this to illustrate the difference between two Labour politicians who came from nothing. It’s pretty stark.

I’m not sure that it is though. I admire them both, and have heard both of them speak publicly. I don’t think either of them has changed their manners or personality in order to “fit in”, and nor should they, imo. They both seem, to me, to be genuine, caring people who are committed to improving our society, and goodness knows, we need people like that.

One heightist remark doesn’t make AR a monster.

It’s the very fact that she doesn’t fit in that enables Rayner to backfoot her opponents so often though. They don’t know what to expect her to say, she is unpredictable and dangerous to the traditional way of doing parliamentary business. That is a very good way to behave because it challenges.
I don’t condone her personal remarks about Sunak. However she knows that nobody can change class, she is being herself and it’s a case of like it or lump it, that’s how she is.

Her position is gained by Trade Union pressure? Oh no! We must only have politicians in power due to billionaire businessman pressure!

People can and do change class Casdon. It’s very unlikely that you would say either I or my husband are working class now. But we were both brought up in working class families.

Delila

I don’t know why you bring Alan Johnson into this at all GSM. You could selectively compare any two people and find one of them lacking in some quality that you yourself admire - it’s completely subjective and adds nothing to the discussion. I imagine many of us admire Alan Johnson, but that has nothing to do with opinions on Angela Rayner.

It would be interesting, though not relevant, to know what Alan Johnson thinks of Angela Rayner, and of the concept of “fitting in”.

Delila it was me who brought Alan Johnson into the debate in the first place. I did so because people were commenting on AR’s dysfunctional upbringing and seemed to think she was alone in getting so far in politics.

Some of us then pointed out that there are loads of MPs and people in the public eye who came from very poor backgrounds but have done wonderfully well for themselves and you would never guess so because whether they speak with a regional accent or not, they are polite and eloquent. AR makes very nasty comments but says them in such a spiteful way that she sounds like the roughest, classroom bully.

So AJ was brought into the debate because he had an even worse background in the slums of London and rose in the Labour party to become Home Secretary and looked completely at ease whereas AR doesn’t.

Another person I admire is Martin Townsend, journalist, editor and often on TV progs. He had a poor start in life on a council estate with a father with serious mental health problems who would explode every now and then and make their lives hell. He was mostly unemployed. Martin has got where he has, like Rayner and Johnson on his own merits and he is very intelligent, very well spoken and very confident in front of the cameras.

MissAdventure

So many people have wronged Rayner, then.
Mocking, referring to things that she has had no control over.
Speculating that she wears no knickers, and so on...

I quite agree, any personal derogatory comments are unacceptable. I don't like them whoever is making them, and she doesn't get a pass because she's been on the receiving end from others. As far as I know Sunak hasn't criticised any aspect of her appearance? My main point though was that I disagree with TinSoldier's assertion that pint-sized isn't derogatory when it was clearly used as part of an insult "pint-sized loser"

Comments about 'the gutter' puzzle me, considering the moral cesspits that are reputed to be Eton et al. Some of what goes on in our public schools is dreadful, by some accounts, but I guess that's okay as long as it's all aristocrats with posh voices.

John Major’s parents were circus performers.

undines

Comments about 'the gutter' puzzle me, considering the moral cesspits that are reputed to be Eton et al. Some of what goes on in our public schools is dreadful, by some accounts, but I guess that's okay as long as it's all aristocrats with posh voices.

So we should admire them too, having overcome the deprivation suffered in the moral cesspits they endured as children.

Here I go again! -
'Pint sized' is personal and demeaning, criticising a man on what is generally a sensitive point. For a man to be small is considered as much of a physical disadvantage as for a woman to be fat - perhaps even more so, because 'fat' can be changed but height can't (at least not without extreme surgery). Comments about 'mugwumps' and 'slime' are insulting and rude, but not personal in the same way. Sunak could do something about his cruel and uncaring policies, arguably he could do more to help the world with his vast wealth, but the only thing he can do to be taller is stand on tip-toe!

Callistemon21 I would like more proof they have risen above anything! A lot of them have made a 'natural' progression into politics through their power and wealth, have no idea how to run a country because they have no experience of life outside their ivory towers, and just move to the House of Commons through safe seats, to bray and sprawl! Great democracy, innit?

Primrose53 I agree with you that you have to fully admire people brought up in abject poverty, who manage to reach dizzying heights and yet stay polite and respectful to their colleagues even when they disagree. AR doesn't seem to have achieved that. In my book respect is one of the most important qualities in society, and if we all respected each other the world would be a very different place.

I refer to my post at 09:01:05 today.

Even the staunchly Conservative press, The Telegraph makes repeated reference to Sunak's diminutive size and political stature. Why is nobody complaining about that?

Remarks about Sunak’s stature is almost a daily trope and probably water off a duck's back in the cut and thrust of politics. Rayner detractors, including here, refer to her hair, clothes speech, underwear and social background. Why is that considered acceptable?

Clearly, Sunak isn’t pint-sized. Five feet seven is a tad below average height. But, barring a coup within his own party, he is going to be leading the party which loses the GE. He will be a loser.

Personally, I suspect Rayner made the comment as a riposte to the ridiculous claims from some Tory quarters that Boris Johnson was a political giant - which, of course, he wasn't but it doesn't stop Nadine Dorries publishing such florid nonsense.

By contrast, Sunak’s premiership is only remarkable for his obsession with small boats and Rwanda - which isn’t going to work. Even Tory commentators say they party doesn’t want it to work, for obvious reasons - but that’s another subject.

Also, whether it can be verified or not, Lewis Goodall on LBC with James O’Brien said the pint-size comment sounded familiar and posited that Dorries was the originator in her book The Plot. Rayner likes to do her research so maybe she was echoing something said by a Tory that she has read.

Personally too, I would prefer that Rayner didn’t resort to person remarks so that she can be seen to rising above the very low bar set by the government especially by Boris Johnson with his well-documents remarks about women, gay men and black Africans.

Again, so much for knowing how to represent the country appropriately and with dignity.

Chestnut

Primrose53 I agree with you that you have to fully admire people brought up in abject poverty, who manage to reach dizzying heights and yet stay polite and respectful to their colleagues even when they disagree. AR doesn't seem to have achieved that. In my book respect is one of the most important qualities in society, and if we all respected each other the world would be a very different place.

I absolutely agree with you Chestnut.

As a general aside, I think heightism (if that’s a word) is one of the few acceptable “isms” left in this country, and the very tall and very short are just expected to put up with the casual insults and banter. It doesn’t make it right - in fact it’s very wrong - and as I said earlier I’d never condone anyone making fun of somebody else’s physical attributes. But we see derogatory comments about Sunak’s height on a daily basis, and I’ve never seen them challenged before. I wonder if Churchill was treated the same way - he was the same height or smaller, depending on whose report you read.