Angela Rayner lashes out and calls Sunak “pint sized loser”.

Delila

I don’t know why you bring Alan Johnson into this at all GSM. You could selectively compare any two people and find one of them lacking in some quality that you yourself admire - it’s completely subjective and adds nothing to the discussion. I imagine many of us admire Alan Johnson, but that has nothing to do with opinions on Angela Rayner.

It would be interesting, though not relevant, to know what Alan Johnson thinks of Angela Rayner, and of the concept of “fitting in”.

Delila it was me who brought Alan Johnson into the debate in the first place. I did so because people were commenting on AR’s dysfunctional upbringing and seemed to think she was alone in getting so far in politics.

Some of us then pointed out that there are loads of MPs and people in the public eye who came from very poor backgrounds but have done wonderfully well for themselves and you would never guess so because whether they speak with a regional accent or not, they are polite and eloquent. AR makes very nasty comments but says them in such a spiteful way that she sounds like the roughest, classroom bully.

So AJ was brought into the debate because he had an even worse background in the slums of London and rose in the Labour party to become Home Secretary and looked completely at ease whereas AR doesn’t.

Another person I admire is Martin Townsend, journalist, editor and often on TV progs. He had a poor start in life on a council estate with a father with serious mental health problems who would explode every now and then and make their lives hell. He was mostly unemployed. Martin has got where he has, like Rayner and Johnson on his own merits and he is very intelligent, very well spoken and very confident in front of the cameras.

People can and do change class Casdon. It’s very unlikely that you would say either I or my husband are working class now. But we were both brought up in working class families.

Her position is gained by Trade Union pressure? Oh no! We must only have politicians in power due to billionaire businessman pressure!

It’s the very fact that she doesn’t fit in that enables Rayner to backfoot her opponents so often though. They don’t know what to expect her to say, she is unpredictable and dangerous to the traditional way of doing parliamentary business. That is a very good way to behave because it challenges.
I don’t condone her personal remarks about Sunak. However she knows that nobody can change class, she is being herself and it’s a case of like it or lump it, that’s how she is.

Germanshepherdsmum

I bring AJ into this to illustrate the difference between two Labour politicians who came from nothing. It’s pretty stark.

I’m not sure that it is though. I admire them both, and have heard both of them speak publicly. I don’t think either of them has changed their manners or personality in order to “fit in”, and nor should they, imo. They both seem, to me, to be genuine, caring people who are committed to improving our society, and goodness knows, we need people like that.

One heightist remark doesn’t make AR a monster.

Goodness, for one breathtaking minute I thought the 'Johnson' being referred to as a GENTLEMAN was Boris!
That'll teach me to scroll backwards!

In her position, Lizzie, I think it’s a basic courtesy to others to make an effort to fit in. You can still remain true to yourself, as I have.

She shouldn't have said that. It isn't fair to make personal comments and yes, if someone made a remark like that about a woman's personage it would cause uproar. Men should be accorded equivalent respect. Having said this, the trend in politics it seems is to be rude, to lie and do what the hell you feel like as long as you can hang on to power and serve yourself. Johnson seems to me to have spearheaded this, but he can't be blamed for the way MPs seem to be slipping into the gutter. After 2019 I would have been delighted if my crystal ball had shown Labour making such a comeback. Not so now! I think there's little to choose between them. It's very sad and I fear for all those on NHS waiting lists, living in mouldy accommodation (or on the streets), young people trying to get mortgages or all the other ills that seem to be growing by the day.

Chestnut

Rosie51

TinSoldier Pint-sized is not a derogatory term.
I have no problem with AR's roots, accent or life experiences, but I will criticise her for her use of these words. I don't like comments referring to somebody's size or shape. Criticise their stated beliefs, their actions etc . You can't believe that she used 'pint-sized' with any other intention than as an insult, why mention his size at all? What purpose did it serve? Would she have mentioned it if he was 6'2"? I don't believe she would.

I'm with you on this Rosie. A person cannot help their race or their height, so to mock someone's height is like mocking their race, very wrong. Mocking their weight is generally not acceptable, and yet it's quite okay to mock their height (whether short or tall). I think this is totally wrong and hope this will change.

Imagine if a Conservative MP made fun of AR’s breast implants during a parliamentary session. All hell really would break loose and all her supporters would be squealing “unfair.”

I bring AJ into this to illustrate the difference between two Labour politicians who came from nothing. It’s pretty stark.

Yes GSM I do remember Alan Johnson and thought him a decent person. He obviously felt, for his own personal reasons, that he had to ‘change’ in order to ‘fit in’. I’m not saying he was right or wrong - it was his choice. But I am saying it shouldn’t be necessary to feel one must do that; Angela Rayner has chosen to remain true to herself, take her or leave her, and I admire that. I’m a bit the same myself. Working class northern lass; pregnant at 16; left school with a few O levels; went back into education via night school (remember that) then on to Uni (when there was still a grant); gained a first; taught for 30 years, eventually lecturing in a Uni. I haven’t changed anything about myself in order to ‘fit in’ - although I have experienced imposter syndrome at times, but have told it to f**k off

So many people have wronged Rayner, then.
Mocking, referring to things that she has had no control over.
Speculating that she wears no knickers, and so on...

Rosie51

TinSoldier Pint-sized is not a derogatory term.
I have no problem with AR's roots, accent or life experiences, but I will criticise her for her use of these words. I don't like comments referring to somebody's size or shape. Criticise their stated beliefs, their actions etc . You can't believe that she used 'pint-sized' with any other intention than as an insult, why mention his size at all? What purpose did it serve? Would she have mentioned it if he was 6'2"? I don't believe she would.

I'm with you on this Rosie. A person cannot help their race or their height, so to mock someone's height is like mocking their race, very wrong. Mocking their weight is generally not acceptable, and yet it's quite okay to mock their height (whether short or tall). I think this is totally wrong and hope this will change.

Good post Delila👏👏👏

Germanshepherdsmum

Do you not remember Alan Johnson Lizzie? He served as Sec of State for Education, Sec of State for Health and Home Secretary and is now chancellor of a university.

Yes, many of us have read his autobiographies, in fact I have a signed copy of his first book.

I don’t know why you bring Alan Johnson into this at all GSM. You could selectively compare any two people and find one of them lacking in some quality that you yourself admire - it’s completely subjective and adds nothing to the discussion. I imagine many of us admire Alan Johnson, but that has nothing to do with opinions on Angela Rayner.

It would be interesting, though not relevant, to know what Alan Johnson thinks of Angela Rayner, and of the concept of “fitting in”.

Don’t you remember Prescott punching someone? But let’s be clear, I have never supported Anderson or Prescott.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/25/lee-anderson-from-labour-councillor-to-labour-wind-up-merchant
He was suspended by Ashfield Council when he took the law into his own hands and placed boulders at the entrance of a potential traveller site. He defected to the Tories, became an MP, where his behaviour ultimately resulted in a repeat of similar behaviour. Far worse than anything Angela Rayner or John Prescott seem to be accused of.

I know he was - and didn’t last long. He came from Labour of course.

He was a very recent deputy chairman of the Conservative Party *Germanshepherdsmum that was the purpose of the comparison, not to imply that you personally supported him?

I don’t know why you bring Anderson into it Casdon. Do you think I am a supporter of his? You couldn’t be more wrong.

having somewhat more upstairs
Now, that might be getting closer, though difficult to measure this.

Do you not remember Alan Johnson Lizzie? He served as Sec of State for Education, Sec of State for Health and Home Secretary and is now chancellor of a university.

Not everyone thinks like I do, (probably just as well!), and I quite like people who speak strongly and say it as it is.
But why can't this be done intelligently and without insults?

Germanshepherdsmum

Prescott was a thug, wwm.

Just not as much of one as Lee Anderson, and had somewhat more upstairs, as well as having a great sense of humour.