Immigration and migrants

Have you studied the link I posted, Maizie? Enforced returns have increased. However, so has asylum seekers’ (or should I say their crooked lawyers’) cunning in finding ways to successfully appeal a refusal of asylum. The more appeals, the more clogged up and slower the Tribunal. For instance, going through a sham baptism, pretending to be gay, pretending to come from a country to which it is not safe for them to return without proof to the contrary - all grounds guaranteed to succeed on appeal, amongst others.

You know full well that I vote Conservative and will continue to do so - and that I am not alone in that on GN.

Interesting list, PuddyCat.

I wonder who voted for the government which has been so incompetent at dealing with these cases?

I don’t think your daughter’s in laws, having lived here for 40 years and having integrated with British society, can reasonably be compared with single young men newly arrived from countries where women have few rights, growstuff. Are we to wait 40 years to see how things pan out for these young men?

Some government stats about returns:
www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2023/how-many-people-are-detained-or-returned

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s their culture which is the problem Cossy (I think you meant potential rapists, not racists). Most come from countries where women have few rights and we have seen ample evidence of how those who expect to marry a virgin of their own religion (and they will be in short supply) use and abuse white girls.

It doesn’t matter what work might be found for them (and again I say ‘if any’), they will have a lot of free time in which to continue being the nuisance many of them currently are.

Yep! My daughter's in-laws came form countries where women had restricted rights, but they've been in the UK for 40 years and have integrated. They're still Muslims, but were happy to accept my daughter as their son't wife after they'd lived together for seven years. I doubt very much if she was a virgin!

Over 1200 years ago, this is what was written of the Vikings who sacked Lindisfarne, "Heathen men came and miserably destroyed God’s church on Lindisfarne, with plunder and slaughter".

People were terrified and appalled, but despite the atrocity, Christianity survived at Lindisfarne and within less than 200 years the Vikings in Britain converted to Christianity. They integrated and nearly every single person with English ancestry has some Viking DNA. Those "heathens" are part of who we are as individuals and as a society.

That's how the history of populations evolves and there is nothing about our times to suggest we are any different or have somehow managed to stop the way history works.

You truly think that, having been found guilty of murder, rape, violent crimes, we should give them the right to appeal to stay growstuff? And even after they've been imprisoned, released and go on to commit even more heinous crimes? I'm appalled. But not surprised.

EEJit

Of course they are illegal. They have arrived without the necessary papers to make them legal, no visa, and no passport, some even lying about their ages.

Why should we accept and cater to them when other countries are either blocking them, or they are quickly deported?

They're not "illegal" under international law.

Thank you PuddyCat. That list demonstrates exactly why some of us are unhappy about migrants.

PuddyCat Something is done, but they do have a right to appeal (as does anybody in a civilised country) and the legal system is underfunded and struggling to cope.

LizzieDrip

^Bit like the white-faced, English-speaking young men who hang around my town's high street outside chippies and fried chicken places in the evenings (and many other high streets)^

Yes mine too growstuff. I don’t consider them to all be potential rapists on the lookout for sex.

Neither do I. They can be visible and a bit noisy, especially if they've been drinking - young men (and some girls) have been like for as long as I can remember - and probably much longer.

The ones that worry me the most are those that have been refused leave to remain, usually because they've committed violent crimes, but then nothing is done to actually remove them from our country. Our governments lethargy puts us all at risk as the incidents below testify.

There was the horrific murder of seven-year-old Emily Jones in Bolton by a failed asylum seeker in March 2020.
In June 2022, there was a brutal triple stabbing in a Reading park by a failed Libyan asylum seeker who the government had granted temporary leave to remain despite having criminal convictions and being in a terrorist group.
There was the murder of 32-year-old Lorraine Cox in Exeter in September 2020 by a failed asylum claimant.
Asylum seeker Badreddin Abadlla Adam – stabbed six people, including a police officer, while on a violent rampage in a hotel in Glasgow in June 2020.
An Afghan asylum seeker – Samiulahaq Akbari – tried to murder a complete stranger in Thornton Heath, London while ‘fuelled’ by a desire to kill English people. He was convicted of attempted murder over the rampage which took place on 8 January 2019, just 12 days after he was released from prison for another assault.
Kuwaiti hit and run driver – Hadi Hamid – who nearly killed two teenagers in Middlesbrough in October 2017 after ploughing into them with his car (and leaving them with life-changing injuries) was allowed to stay in the UK – even though his refugee status was revoked. Hamid was sentenced to four years behind bars in February 2018 and was ordered to be deported, yet he was released from prison in October 2019 and remains in the UK.
Rachid Redouane – one of the perpetrators of the June 2017 London Bridge attacks, in which 11 people were killed and 48 injured (21 critically) – was a Moroccan-born failed asylum seeker. After having his 2009 claim for asylum rejected, he remained here before going on to live in Ireland three years later. He then returned and (alongside two others) committed the attack.
Officials missed six chances to kick illegal immigrant Hani Khalaf out of Britain before he murdered a carer. The 22-year-old Egyptian bludgeoned Jairo Medina, 62, to death in London’s Hyde Park in August 2016 for his mobile phone and a few pounds. Khalaf was free to live in the UK despite falsely claiming to be a Syrian refugee when he arrived in Kent two years earlier hidden in a lorry. The career criminal had previously been arrested at least six times for theft and fraud, but was released rather than deported as he repeatedly lied about his identity.
Shahin Darvish-Narenjbon, a failed asylum seeker who killed his 87-year-old "surrogate grandmother" who had offered him a place to study and live.
Lawangeen Abdulrahimzai who had already murdered 2 people in Serbia, was subsequently refused asylum in Norway but came to the UK the same month and was given leave to remain. He went on to murder his 3rd victim, Thomas Roberts, in Bournemouth shortly after.
Moroccan asylum seeker Ahmed Alid, 45, stabbed 70-year-old Terence Carney multiple times in Hartlepool in October 2023.
Emad Al Swealmeen was refused asylum but nothing was done to remove him from the UK. His bomb device exploded in a taxi outside Liverpool Women's Hospital on 14 November 2021 fortunately only killing himself and not his intended targets.

There have been too many of these incidents and every time it happens, it becomes apparent that signs and indicators have been overlooked or ignored.

They are free to come and go, Katie, they are not kept locked up - and therefore some simply disappear.

Lizzie, worldwide 80% of people identify as straight - and I would think gay men are unlikely to harass women with cat calling and gesticulating.

Cossy

EEJit

Of course they are illegal. They have arrived without the necessary papers to make them legal, no visa, and no passport, some even lying about their ages.

Why should we accept and cater to them when other countries are either blocking them, or they are quickly deported?

The people themselves are NOT illegal. They are entering the country via illegal means, because our govt passed a law deeming it so!

Illegal migrants are detained on supervision until their cases are determined, they are not free

Correct GSM; in exactly the same way you have no evidence that the groups of young men are potential rapists looking for sex.

You have no evidence of that though do you?

Some (perhaps many) of the young male asylum seekers may be gay and fleeing from persecution in countries where homosexuality is punishable by death. I doubt they are potential rapists!

EEJit

Of course they are illegal. They have arrived without the necessary papers to make them legal, no visa, and no passport, some even lying about their ages.

Why should we accept and cater to them when other countries are either blocking them, or they are quickly deported?

The people themselves are NOT illegal. They are entering the country via illegal means, because our govt passed a law deeming it so!

Bit like the white-faced, English-speaking young men who hang around my town's high street outside chippies and fried chicken places in the evenings (and many other high streets)

Yes mine too growstuff. I don’t consider them to all be potential rapists on the lookout for sex.

Of course they are illegal. They have arrived without the necessary papers to make them legal, no visa, and no passport, some even lying about their ages.

Why should we accept and cater to them when other countries are either blocking them, or they are quickly deported?

"It was the E.U. that encouraged them to to Europe".

Er...no. they just started coming. If one reads up on Germany and numbers taken and the opposition to same, its not very different.

I've made the point many times that if the UK were only to join in with anti people smuggling initiatives in the EU we have a greater chance of convictions than we do.

Curtaintwitcher

Why is it that so many people truly believe that any country in the world can absorb an unlimited number of immigrants? Do they think this country is made of elastic and we can simply claim a bit more when the tide goes out?

Quite apart from the cultural and politic effects, it's way past time to refuse any more new people. We have been extremely generous to refugees and genuine asylum seekers, so have no need to feel guilty. They are safely in Europe. It was the E.U. that encouraged them to to Europe, let the E.U. deal with them.

It’s my understanding that NO ONE one here is advocating that any one country can ever absorb ALL the worlds refugees?

Many, many other countries have accepted refugees and many experience all the highs and lows of doing so.

Perhaps if ALL countries worked together these issues could be resolved, but of course this isn’t ever going to happen, especially in many of the countries around the world having corrupt governments and violent army type police and officials.

I don’t have the answers.

Those who don’t speak English and have no useful skills will be unlikely to earn more than the minimum wage if they get work. That won’t go far - and they won’t be eligible to claim benefits. The black economy will pay far better and there will be no deductions for tax and NI.

I think we have seen from the sham baptisms how little those resorting to such means of being granted asylum respect our country and our way of life.

Why is it that so many people truly believe that any country in the world can absorb an unlimited number of immigrants? Do they think this country is made of elastic and we can simply claim a bit more when the tide goes out?

Quite apart from the cultural and politic effects, it's way past time to refuse any more new people. We have been extremely generous to refugees and genuine asylum seekers, so have no need to feel guilty. They are safely in Europe. It was the E.U. that encouraged them to to Europe, let the E.U. deal with them.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Quotes a deleted post.

Germanshepherdsmum

It’s their culture which is the problem Cossy (I think you meant potential rapists, not racists). Most come from countries where women have few rights and we have seen ample evidence of how those who expect to marry a virgin of their own religion (and they will be in short supply) use and abuse white girls.

It doesn’t matter what work might be found for them (and again I say ‘if any’), they will have a lot of free time in which to continue being the nuisance many of them currently are.

GSM Sorry, of course I mean rapists, thanks for correcting!

To be honest, I really don’t have the answers, but I do think limited work opportunities in very unskilled areas would help, if they choose not to do this, I’m not sure we’d want them anyway?? Surely anyone desperate to escape some of the awful regimes in their own countries would be only too happy to work and make a little money for themselves? I know I would.

Yes, I totally get that women have a terrible time in many countries still and I certainly don’t have the answers here and I’d never condone this nor knowingly put any woman at risk.

I’m not sure I know the answer, but in the same way as “legally entering” migrants have to apply for citizenship by sitting what is, to be honest, a pretty odd test, do those given indefinite leave to remain and right to work have to do the same? Surely this “test” should include far more learning about our culture and laws than some of the stuff I believe it contains?