What should the Tories do now?

Germanshepherdsmum

I believe that assessors should be unbiased - one’s GP is likely to have bias in favour of the patient.

Not if they (GP) are doing their job thoroughly. My GP always talks through various options before issuing fit notes.

It would be fine if the DWP were planning on using medically qualified people, but it sounds as though this new system will use their own “trained” but not medically qualified staff.

Cossy

MazieD

Sadly, the current flawed system. The new proposed one sounds utterly horrendous! I’m not really sure how they (Govt) think they should EVER have the powers to undermine and override GP’s assessment or fit notes. Doesn’t bode well does it for those in work and taking time off sick either!!! Appalling idea!

Precisely...

I believe that assessors should be unbiased - one’s GP is likely to have bias in favour of the patient.

He can be charismatically entertaining when allowed a platform; witty and clever... but he was a lousy PM.

As his 'charismatic wit' also involves telling lies for his own amusement, as he did, by his own admission, when he was the bored EU correspondent for the Telegraph, lies which were frequently cited by leave voters, I can't find even that trait particularly admirable...

It's notable that Ian Hislop deeply regrets that HIGNFY gave him a platform...

MazieD

Sadly, the current flawed system. The new proposed one sounds utterly horrendous! I’m not really sure how they (Govt) think they should EVER have the powers to undermine and override GP’s assessment or fit notes. Doesn’t bode well does it for those in work and taking time off sick either!!! Appalling idea!

Cossy

“
Instead, today's tory gems seem to have been Sunak's plan to bypass GPs and install teams of unqualified people to assess people who are in receipt of sickness benefits as to their fitness for work (hasn't this been done before and wasn't it the cause of untold misery?) and a suggestion from a tory MP that postal voting is abolished. hmm Just want people wanted, of course....”

Providing a sick note (fit note!) entitles you to noting other than entry to the out of work sickness benefits (either ESA or UC). One then has to attend, normally in person, an assessment which decides one of three things, 1) fit for work now, 2) fit for work in the future 3) unfit for work in the future

These assessments are all completed by medically qualified people, however the flaw is that they won’t necessarily be qualified in the area of the claimant sickness or disability.

To claim PIP (Personal Independence Payment, a non means tested benefit for anyone with a long term condition or disability. No fit note is required, a long laborious form needs to be completed and then additional medical evidence and proof of medication etc provided and permission given to contact GP. Then an assessment is completed, much the same as aforementioned and PIP only awarded if enough “points” are gained.

Are you describing the current situation or the planned future procedure, Cossy?. The impression I was getting was that the assessors in the 'new' system will not be medically qualified.

Dickens

He can be charismatically entertaining when allowed a platform; witty and clever... but he was a lousy PM.

I rather liked him on Have I got News For You. But loathed him as London Mayor, an MP and as PM.

nellflanders

Bring back Boris it's their only hope.

That would be a very desperate move by a desperate party, desperate to hang on to power - flailing around looking for something, anything, to revive its popularity.

Johnson's meteoric rise to fame was caused by the popular vote to get-Brexit-done, and that ship has sailed because for good or ill Brexit is done, though subsequent events have indicated that it was not done very successfully. They also proved that apart from getting-Brexit-done, he was not very good at anything else, especially if it required getting down to some serious work that didn't involve swanning around the country, gurning under various hard-hats or shuffling around in high-viz jackets or donning the aprons and overalls of the working class he was keen to convince he was the hearty-chap who was completely on their side.

Not to even mention the obfuscation, the reluctance to attend crisis COBRA meetings at the beginning of the pandemic, nor the lies that subsequently led to his downfall.

Research what happened with the much-vaunted levelling-up, the funding that was to replace that of the EU, etc, etc.

Whichever party is in power needs a steady hand at the wheel not a disgraced narcissist who is channelling his inner-Churchill at every given opportunity.

He can be charismatically entertaining when allowed a platform; witty and clever... but he was a lousy PM.

Bring back Boris it's their only hope

YES, brilliant idea!!! It would be the final nail in the Conservative coffin.

“
Instead, today's tory gems seem to have been Sunak's plan to bypass GPs and install teams of unqualified people to assess people who are in receipt of sickness benefits as to their fitness for work (hasn't this been done before and wasn't it the cause of untold misery?) and a suggestion from a tory MP that postal voting is abolished. hmm Just want people wanted, of course....”

Providing a sick note (fit note!) entitles you to noting other than entry to the out of work sickness benefits (either ESA or UC). One then has to attend, normally in person, an assessment which decides one of three things, 1) fit for work now, 2) fit for work in the future 3) unfit for work in the future

These assessments are all completed by medically qualified people, however the flaw is that they won’t necessarily be qualified in the area of the claimant sickness or disability.

To claim PIP (Personal Independence Payment, a non means tested benefit for anyone with a long term condition or disability. No fit note is required, a long laborious form needs to be completed and then additional medical evidence and proof of medication etc provided and permission given to contact GP. Then an assessment is completed, much the same as aforementioned and PIP only awarded if enough “points” are gained.

When you have polls like this many will vote for the ‘underdog’ just because they don’t want anything like a dictatorship. Rightly so.

Why do we have to be Right or Left why can't we just want a decent political party that wants to do what's right for the people of the country, with no personal agenda. No matter what party gains power that is very unlikely to happen. The Country has no money. It's all been wasted by over use and improper management. Neither main party is really interested in what the people want or even needs. Which are two different things. As children we were often told what we want and what we need are two different things. There's not enough money to give us even what we need and won't be whilst ridiculous projects are being half baked and continued spending on things that the majority of the country don't even want. What use is a high speed train when most of us can't even afford to travel on it. What use is building housing estates with expensive houses when over half the country can't afford to buy them. If we must have illegal immigrants then get them out there working snd posting taxes even from their luxury hotels. No work, no money.

Katie59

The problem is that so many so called opinion polls or research, predict a Labour victory when a working majority is far from certain. This history of coalition governments in the UK has not been good

I agree, nothing is a “done deal”, and won’t be until the GE has taken place and results published.

I wish that could be asap so we can all move on!

MaizieD

^Plus a lot can happen between now and whenever the GE is called.^
Like what, Oreo?. What could happen that would suddenly make people turn back to the tories?

Dickens' excellent post at 9:18 this evening is a pretty comprehensive catalogue of what is really peeing people off and the indications are that the tories aren't going to do a thing about rectifying any of them.

Instead, today's tory gems seem to have been Sunak's plan to bypass GPs and install teams of unqualified people to assess people who are in receipt of sickness benefits as to their fitness for work (hasn't this been done before and wasn't it the cause of untold misery?) and a suggestion from a tory MP that postal voting is abolished. Just want people wanted, of course....

A week is a long time in politics!😁

nellflanders

Bring back Boris it's their only hope.

God no! Not unless you really want the Tories annihilated!

Every voter Boris brings in he loses at least 2 more.

Bring back Boris it's their only hope.

Growstuff, I think your reply to me was rude. Was Winston Churchill and Harold Wilson if the flat cap, racing pigeon brigade as you call old labour supporters. Not everyone who wears a flat cap or race pigeons are stupid, what you infer, the opposite in many cases. Why cannot you comment and be interested in the opposition, you assume I am Tory, I am now on no one’s side as disgusted by them all. Isn’t that what politics is about, not slavishly following a party because you always have. When I agree with the overall principles and objectives, can’t agree on everything that’s silly, then I will decide, meanwhile I watch what either party promise and conduct themselves. The boats need to stop leaving Calais, neither side will do anything, they should patrol and stop, wrecking the boats if necessary, therefore saving many lives, people being preyed on by those not interested in safety just the money. We need apprenticeships back to get young people the necessary skills more social housing for those on low pay but working hard. So many issues been pushed aside because of arguments about Brexit which was decided democratically.

growstuff

Dickens:

"Labour are hoping to work more closely with Europol and Europe on this issue to find practical and realistic ways of dealing with the crisis because that is what is needed, something the present government have been reluctant to do since Brexit for fear of offending their Brexit-based supporters."

Not only for fear of offending Brexit-based supporters. The budget for the National Crime Agency, which is the UK's link with Interpol and Europol, has been halved since 2010. Spending money on public services isn't popular in some corners ... and now we're seeing the consequences.

Not only for fear of offending Brexit-based supporters. The budget for the National Crime Agency, which is the UK's link with Interpol and Europol, has been halved since 2010.

Oh, yes - of course, I'd forgotten about that.

But still, they take national security and crime very seriously... I think that's the phrase generally used when things go pear-shaped...

Wyllow3

Have we actually signed a contract with Rwanda for X people/X years?
Ie actually pull back from it without enormous pay off?

( I never wanted it but don't know the "T's and C's")

The Rwandan spokeswoman "can't say" how many they can manage - it's a work-in-progress.

A rather important term / condition of any contract, I'd have thought.

Maybe it's a PAYGO sort of thing?

Dickens:

"Labour are hoping to work more closely with Europol and Europe on this issue to find practical and realistic ways of dealing with the crisis because that is what is needed, something the present government have been reluctant to do since Brexit for fear of offending their Brexit-based supporters."

Not only for fear of offending Brexit-based supporters. The budget for the National Crime Agency, which is the UK's link with Interpol and Europol, has been halved since 2010. Spending money on public services isn't popular in some corners ... and now we're seeing the consequences.

How can you sign a contract that now chalked up 3 million pounds with no guarantees about numbers taken or when?

Yes, the government has signed a five year deal, I can’t see a specific mention of numbers.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68961058#:~:text=Around%2052%2C000%20have%20come%20to,seekers%20to%20Rwanda%20passed%20Parliament.

Wyllow3

Have we actually signed a contract with Rwanda for X people/X years?
Ie actually pull back from it without enormous pay off?

( I never wanted it but don't know the "T's and C's")

I don't think that numbers were specified, Wyllow3. I doubt if Rwanda will be bothered if we never send anyone; they've had a considerable amount of money out of us already.

I wouldn't think that the government would be so daft as to sign a contract for X years - or would they?

O course, we have civil servants potentially taking the government to court over being asked to implement the Rwanda scheme...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68934480

Have any airlines yet agreed to carry the deportees?

Plus a lot can happen between now and whenever the GE is called.
Like what, Oreo?. What could happen that would suddenly make people turn back to the tories?

Dickens' excellent post at 9:18 this evening is a pretty comprehensive catalogue of what is really peeing people off and the indications are that the tories aren't going to do a thing about rectifying any of them.

Instead, today's tory gems seem to have been Sunak's plan to bypass GPs and install teams of unqualified people to assess people who are in receipt of sickness benefits as to their fitness for work (hasn't this been done before and wasn't it the cause of untold misery?) and a suggestion from a tory MP that postal voting is abolished. Just want people wanted, of course....