What should the Tories do now?

HousePlantQueen

Trurider1

Lots of Comment BUT aALL Ignore the ACTUAL FACTS.

IN the LOCAL Elections in BRITAIN in May 2024 IDIOTS would claim that LABOUR are on their way to Victory in the General Elections later on in the year B UT what they fail to see is the truth. Labour have only collected 39% of the Local Posts lost by the Conservatives with 61% going elsewhere.

Local Councillor Elections are TOTALLY Unrelated to NATIONAL ELECTIONS but if they were then these figures only show that Labour would not be the party gaining seats from the Conservatives.

(1) I am not an idiot
(2) STOP SHOUTING

Trurider I don’t mean to be rude, but have you understood the statistics from the local elections are not representative of anything other than the mood of the country, the flatline projection originally put forward by Sky News has been dismissed. It assumes that Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will vote exactly the same as they did in 2019 because the local elections were England only. It disregards where the votes will go for those people who voted for Independents in the local elections - and it disregards national opinion polls, which are a more reliable bellwether for general elections than local elections are.
If it gives you comfort to believe what you’ve written carry on, but in the knowledge that your summary is incorrect.

ND hasn’t been seen in last few years hardly at all, so take what she says with a generous pinch of salt, I won’t be reading her book.
Maisie, Conservatives should hang on as long as they can to keep Captain Hindsight out. People are fed up with Conservatives, I am, but not enough to have the Labour lot in. It’s not a Labour Party any more, hasn’t been for many years. It’s a very depressing time for UK. All these marches and in fighting of different sections of the population. I feel sorry for my grandchikdren, all hardworking but no chance of buying a house. However if Labour do get in they could always make themselves unemployed and get one of the new council houses they promise to build.

? Nadine Dorries resigned as an MP eight months ago, and as a minister eighteen months ago. Say what you like about her, but you can’t say she doesn’t have recent experience.

Casdon

? Nadine Dorries resigned as an MP eight months ago, and as a minister eighteen months ago. Say what you like about her, but you can’t say she doesn’t have recent experience.

Casdon

The facts are that Labour only increased its vote in the LE by 3%, a win with a good majority is not guaranteed. There was no landslide vote to Labour, smaller parties benefited the most from Tory losses.
In addition it is assumed that the SNP will loose seats in the GE, don’t bet on that if Swinney revives the fortunes of the party they might hold the balance of power in Westminster.

I don’t look forward to that prospect but don’t dismiss it, a hung parliament is possible.

Allsorts

ND hasn’t been seen in last few years hardly at all, so take what she says with a generous pinch of salt, I won’t be reading her book.
Maisie, Conservatives should hang on as long as they can to keep Captain Hindsight out. People are fed up with Conservatives, I am, but not enough to have the Labour lot in. It’s not a Labour Party any more, hasn’t been for many years. It’s a very depressing time for UK. All these marches and in fighting of different sections of the population. I feel sorry for my grandchikdren, all hardworking but no chance of buying a house. However if Labour do get in they could always make themselves unemployed and get one of the new council houses they promise to build.

Could you please explain what you mean by claiming that the Labour Party isn't a Labour Party. You don't even support it, so it's not really up to you to claim whom it should represent. Does everybody voting for Labour have to have a flat cap and race pigeons and have a mucky job?

In any case, what exactly is a Conservative Party? They're just names for groups of people with common aims. There's no rule that they should have the same aims "ad infinitum".

Katie59

Casdon

? Nadine Dorries resigned as an MP eight months ago, and as a minister eighteen months ago. Say what you like about her, but you can’t say she doesn’t have recent experience.

Casdon

The facts are that Labour only increased its vote in the LE by 3%, a win with a good majority is not guaranteed. There was no landslide vote to Labour, smaller parties benefited the most from Tory losses.
In addition it is assumed that the SNP will loose seats in the GE, don’t bet on that if Swinney revives the fortunes of the party they might hold the balance of power in Westminster.

I don’t look forward to that prospect but don’t dismiss it, a hung parliament is possible.

Most of this round of elections were held in councils where Labour was already strong, so the scope for an increased vote share was limited. That's one reason it can't be truly predictive of what will happen in a general election - plus, of course, nobody knows what will happen in Scotland.

flappergirl

I could give a very short and rude answer to the OP's question.

Is that along the lines of go off to the far side of go off and when you get there go off some more ?!!

Curtaintwitcher

I don't think calling an election now is the right thing to do. The recent elections have shown how confused people are. The turn-out was low because many Conservative voters chose not to vote.
The vast majority of people in this country are working class. This means that, in theory, our government should always be Labour. The Conservatives can only get into power if the lower classes vote for them. Johnson knew that, which is why he visited working class areas and persuaded people to vote for him.
We need a party which cares about this country and will do what is best for it. The only ones who seem to are the Reform party. Everyone else is working to a certain agenda, which is destroying Britain.
Why don't more people care about what is happening?

Please define working class? Do teachers work, do nurses work, train drivers, plumbers, even dare I say politicians! Any government of whatever colour should represent all 'classes' not simply the ones they think will give them power. This applies to the Left and Right: they are as bad as each other.

growstuff

Katie59

Casdon

? Nadine Dorries resigned as an MP eight months ago, and as a minister eighteen months ago. Say what you like about her, but you can’t say she doesn’t have recent experience.

Casdon

The facts are that Labour only increased its vote in the LE by 3%, a win with a good majority is not guaranteed. There was no landslide vote to Labour, smaller parties benefited the most from Tory losses.
In addition it is assumed that the SNP will loose seats in the GE, don’t bet on that if Swinney revives the fortunes of the party they might hold the balance of power in Westminster.

I don’t look forward to that prospect but don’t dismiss it, a hung parliament is possible.

Most of this round of elections were held in councils where Labour was already strong, so the scope for an increased vote share was limited. That's one reason it can't be truly predictive of what will happen in a general election - plus, of course, nobody knows what will happen in Scotland.

I think Katie59 tagged the wrong post of mine, so I’m responding to my response to Trurider. I didn’t say Labour would win outright, but what I did say was factually correct. What Trurider said wasn’t.
This gives what I think is an accurate picture of the position.
theconversation.com/local-elections-labour-gains-suggest-the-tide-has-turned-in-many-marginal-constituencies-205056

CvD66

Given so many Tories know they are going to loose their seats, they want to delay the GE as long as possible to drain their gravy train as far as possible. No plan for next steps just bleed the system and watch the party haemorrhage ministers as more and more announce they won't stand again ie before being humiliated.

I exactly agree, they are setting all their pals up with lucrative private contracts and pocketing the last few months of their MP salary and will milk the lot while they can.
I feel so cheated by them because there was nothing in their last manifesto that mentioned bringing in private health care and unqualified people in a medical role (PA's) or running down the school system etc.
I'm a Labour voter so I would favour them going more to the right as the more people that experience their dire policies more vote Labour, who set up the NHS anyway, but that means more risk for the public & anyone of us could be the victim of an ambulance cutback, and people have died because of their policies.

The problem is that so many so called opinion polls or research, predict a Labour victory when a working majority is far from certain. This history of coalition governments in the UK has not been good

Follow the Sky poll tracker Katie59, it amalgamates the results from all polls, so is a much better reflection of the public voting intentions than single polls, which tends to be what the media report on.

I think that some groups wanted to give Labour a good kicking which is why they lost some seats that they were expected to win.

Luckily this is likely to be temporary and they will remember how bad the Tories have been over the last 14 years.

Katie59

The problem is that so many so called opinion polls or research, predict a Labour victory when a working majority is far from certain. This history of coalition governments in the UK has not been good

It depends where the Labour vote increases - and I'm sure the analysts in the Labour Party are already poring over the details.

There's not much advantage to Labour if they gain a 100% increase in places like Liverpool or Manchester because most MPs in those cities already Labour - it doesn't matter if an MP wins by 1 or 50,000 votes.

There are all sorts of other factors, such as whether there's a strong third contender and the personality and/or track record of a sitting MP. The boundary changes will have some effect in certain areas.

Some opinion polls do go further than overall swings and look at individual constituencies. I remember following them during the last election and they were fairly accurate. They haven't really started to publish their findings for the next election, but I expect they will soon.

Cossy

knspol

I don't think the Tories have time to try and turn things around or change the minds of many voters so although I don't want to see Starmer as PM I think the best thing for the country to avoid all this worldwide uncertainty is to call a GE asap. Don't think this will happen though as Sunak seems very blinkered where public opinion is concerned. Time in opposition and a new leader is what they need and not Truss or Johnson.

I do wish Sunak would set a GE date, and soon.

I don’t think all this guessing, surmising and uncertainty is helping anyone, we still have purdah to work through when a date is finally set and endless campaigning, aka slating all but your own. I genuinely think the electorate just want to move on and know who is going to be steering the ship.

I don’t think all this guessing, surmising and uncertainty is helping anyone, we still have purdah to work through when a date is finally set and endless campaigning, aka slating all but your own. I genuinely think the electorate just want to move on and know who is going to be steering the ship.

Too damned right - I wonder how it is affecting us economically? Are potential investors lining up do you think? Political uncertainty is never good for a nation's economy.

It's no surprise that the current government want to hang on in the belief that they can still turn things round and will be calculating more dog-whistle calls to the party faithful who they think might have deserted them, or those 'undecided' who may be open to the bribe of tax-cuts and a leaner state where "we-offer-support-to-those-who-really-need-it" which is snake-speak for cutting public services.

There's Tory governments and Tory governments but IMO this one has been the worst ever. There was, at least, a semblance of 'One-Nation' Toryism under previous governments who stood, basically, for traditional Conservative values, but it has withered to nothing now with a party who bang on about "delivering to the British people" with that pious air of concern reserved solely for the meaningless mantra.

The "British People" are not even bothering to vote they are now so disenchanted with "British" politics (not that I approve of not voting) under this government.

And to envisage the "endless campaigning" you mention - including the inevitable Rwanda-football game, whilst we are still dreading being ill because of the appalling state of the NHS and other services; whilst many are dreading the arrival of their next bill or wondering how the heck they can continue to afford their mortgage; whilst wages continue to stagnate and the state picks up the bill - blaming the workers for not finding enough work whilst subsidising employers who won't pay a living wage nor, frequently, guarantee the hours that even make it slightly possible to make ends meet. Then there's the pollution of our waterways, the dangerous pot-holes that have become a national joke - though not to those who end up with a repair bill from the garage because of the damage to their car; the almost daily reports of stabbing and knifing up and down the country; the care-in-the-community which leaves many without proper support and a few desperately in need of it who then go on to commit awful crimes killing innocent people who we then discover have a history which in reality probably means they need to be in a secure unit for their own sake and the public's, at least temporarily. The blaming of the EU for imposing its third country rules which impact our economy and make life the more difficult for, particularly, small business - rules which we were well aware of pre-Brexit; the shortages of some medicines which, although Europe-wide, affect us more because we are no longer part of the bloc...

What, exactly, is Sunak delivering to the British people other than months and months of more uncertainty?

I don't believe it's necessarily a done-deal that Starmer will win - especially if some of the comments on GN are anything to go by - and I'm not convinced he's in any way got all the answers and, even if he had, it's going to be a hell of a job to start to repair the damage inflicted over the last 14 years.

And in the background will be Truss babbling on about "growth" and Reform about "all we want is to get our country back".

I'm really really not looking forward to the next few months.

Labour wants more immigration and no Rwanda.Just what we don't want.No government listens to us.

Camille333

Labour wants more immigration and no Rwanda.Just what we don't want.No government listens to us.

This government is listening loud and clear,

Labour wants to work with other European countries to manage the people seeking asylum. You say you want Rwanda - why? The costs are astronomical and - we accept asylum seekers from Rwanda, that’s how safe it is

Some heartfelt views on show here. but quite a few not wholly based on reality?! Council elections largely follow the Govt's successes or problems, and big swings quite often occur, also by-elections are notorious for proving rotten indicators to Gen Election results. I recall some that, if repeated round the country, would have seen the LibDems form a Govt with an outright majority!

Of course the Tories have run out of steam, it happens to all Govts after a long period in office, and this lot have been sliding down the toilet since Cameron & Osborne thoroughly messed up with Brexit by not insisting on a big majority to make such a massive change (57.5% to 42.5% perhaps?). And just to remind everyone, THEIR official position was to Remain -- they just ran a lousy, out-of-touch campaign.

This country is highly unlikely to EVER vote in a hard-left or far-right party, we're just not like that. The Tories will gradually find a new leader, and a more acceptable bunch of policies, and on all known evidence, Labour will show -- once in the spotlight -- that they too have some nitwits on board and some ill-thought policies. Look at how popular Blair (sorry, Bliar) was, a landslide when getting in, and after 13 years, they got booted out again, when 'prudent' Gordon Brown showed that he too had feet of clay.

So at some point, we'll lurch back to the right a bit, Tories will be back, and the whole process will start all over again! Depressing isn't it?!

We've been working with Europe for years and it's got them and us nowhere.Labour won't do anything to stop the boats and it's not true to say they will.

Camille333

We've been working with Europe for years and it's got them and us nowhere.Labour won't do anything to stop the boats and it's not true to say they will.

Have you got a crystal ball Camille33? Do you think there is a way of stopping the boats without working more closely with Europe?

I don't think it matters what they do. I don't think a lot of the electorate trust them any more. I was a died on the wool Labour voter until Corbyn came along. I now go to the ballot box, look at choices and say I won't for them or them etc. So who does that leave me with. So sick of the whole lot of them in general.

Camille333

Labour wants more immigration and no Rwanda.Just what we don't want.No government listens to us.

No government listens to us.

On the contrary, the current government is bending over backwards to accommodate your feelings about immigration.

As for Rwanda - it remains to be seen how successful the plan is in deterring further migration to the UK. And if it isn't, no Rwanda might not be a bad move - especially if we don't get value for money which might be better spent on more workable solutions in dealing with the matter.

Immigration is a global crisis and it needs dealing with pragmatically. Our interference in other nation's politics in some instances has contributed to the influx so we cannot just wash our hands of the matter because it's what we don't want.

Have you read the manifesto - do you know what Labour's plans are? Or are you just parroting the tired old tropes about Labour-want-more-immigrants?

Labour are hoping to work more closely with Europol and Europe on this issue to find practical and realistic ways of dealing with the crisis because that is what is needed, something the present government have been reluctant to do since Brexit for fear of offending their Brexit-based supporters.

The Rwandan government will not commit to how many asylum seekers it will, or can, take. That is still to be worked out.

Katie59

Casdon

? Nadine Dorries resigned as an MP eight months ago, and as a minister eighteen months ago. Say what you like about her, but you can’t say she doesn’t have recent experience.

Casdon

The facts are that Labour only increased its vote in the LE by 3%, a win with a good majority is not guaranteed. There was no landslide vote to Labour, smaller parties benefited the most from Tory losses.
In addition it is assumed that the SNP will loose seats in the GE, don’t bet on that if Swinney revives the fortunes of the party they might hold the balance of power in Westminster.

I don’t look forward to that prospect but don’t dismiss it, a hung parliament is possible.

It’s very possible.
Plus a lot can happen between now and whenever the GE is called.

But I never said it was not possible Oreo, Katie59 didn’t accurately read my posts.

Camille333

We've been working with Europe for years and it's got them and us nowhere.Labour won't do anything to stop the boats and it's not true to say they will.

Labour won't do anything to stop the boats and it's not true to say they will.

People jumping into boats to escape whatever it is they are fleeing from, war, persecution, poverty, is a major problem that doesn't just affect Europe.

As I said earlier, it's a global problem and not one that we can completely wash our hands of either because of our previous 'involvement' in some of those nation's affairs.

It's true that Europe as a whole is not dealing effectively, efficiently or even humanely with the problem, but - it is a complex problem to which there are no easy solutions.

It's easy to say stop the boats but short of shooting at them so they sink, or their passengers die, there's not an awful lot anyone can do without breaking international maritime law.

The French don't have enough manpower to guard every metre of their coastline, however much money we bung them to become in effect our border control.

So what do you suggest we do other than work with what there is and look for workable solutions, now that we can no longer return immigrants to France since we left the EU?