Should Israel not compete in the European Song Contest?

Glorianny

Philippa60

Jaberwok, 100% accurate.

Israel has NO desire to harm innocent civilians.
On the contrary, Israel puts its soldiers at risk, and many have been killed, trying to avoid civilian harm to Palestinians.

All the people who criticize Israel (along the lines of "how many Palestinians need to be killed... etc.") miss the point completely. Israel is trying to ensure that Hamas cannot carry out another October 7th massacre, as they have promised to do. That's it.

There is no aim to take over Gaza (a few crazies on the far right may have said things about that, but they are irrelevant and do not represent the mainstream Israeli people nor the government. Much as I dislike Netanyahu and want him gone, he is in charge and he is not saying this).

A lot of Palestinians are getting harmed because their leaders (Hamas) deliberately put them in harm's way. If only they had used the huge amounts of money given to them by international bodies to build up Gaza, rather than attack Israel all the time, we'd be in a totally different place today.
Gaza could be another Singapore!
But no, they've chosen to be a terror state.

I despair, honestly.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to become "another Singapore" when you have no access to the sea, no port, no means of exit or entrance without strict supervision and limitation on access. Not to mention no power facilities or water provision.
Unemployment in Gaza has always been around 50% because the country is unable to maintain any sort of a viable economy. It is largely dependent on aid to feed its people.
Agriculture and Industry are limited by the access to water and power.
Another Singapore- that's a joke!

Glorianny, no access to the sea? Are you sure about that?
Have you seen what Gaza looked like before October 7th?
No power and water?
This is simply not true.
Or do the facts not matter in your narrative?

No Philippa facts do not matter to some posters.
Nor indeed to many of the protestors.
I’ve seen some of them interviewed, they are unbelievably ignorant of the the history.
Some hadn’t even heard about 07/10 (I’m sure all Gransnetters know about that) and yet they were demonstrating.

The protests in the UK started one week after 07/10. The Israeli action didn’t even begin for a further two weeks. So what we’re they actually protesting about?

Perhaps if Hamas hadn't continually attacked Israel, almost from day 1 with rockets, border incursions and the avowed intent to destroy Israel, and spent the masses of aid on improving the enclave instead of weapons to destroy Israel, the lives of the people of Gaza would have been much easier and Gaza could have flourished. The day Israel foolishly (hind sight is a wonderful thing) let it's guard down, we all saw what happened, which has lead to where we are now. I guarantee Israel won't do that again however many Peace Treaties are agreed!

Philippa60

Glorianny

Philippa60

Jaberwok, 100% accurate.

Israel has NO desire to harm innocent civilians.
On the contrary, Israel puts its soldiers at risk, and many have been killed, trying to avoid civilian harm to Palestinians.

All the people who criticize Israel (along the lines of "how many Palestinians need to be killed... etc.") miss the point completely. Israel is trying to ensure that Hamas cannot carry out another October 7th massacre, as they have promised to do. That's it.

There is no aim to take over Gaza (a few crazies on the far right may have said things about that, but they are irrelevant and do not represent the mainstream Israeli people nor the government. Much as I dislike Netanyahu and want him gone, he is in charge and he is not saying this).

A lot of Palestinians are getting harmed because their leaders (Hamas) deliberately put them in harm's way. If only they had used the huge amounts of money given to them by international bodies to build up Gaza, rather than attack Israel all the time, we'd be in a totally different place today.
Gaza could be another Singapore!
But no, they've chosen to be a terror state.

I despair, honestly.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to become "another Singapore" when you have no access to the sea, no port, no means of exit or entrance without strict supervision and limitation on access. Not to mention no power facilities or water provision.
Unemployment in Gaza has always been around 50% because the country is unable to maintain any sort of a viable economy. It is largely dependent on aid to feed its people.
Agriculture and Industry are limited by the access to water and power.
Another Singapore- that's a joke!

Glorianny, no access to the sea? Are you sure about that?
Have you seen what Gaza looked like before October 7th?
No power and water?
This is simply not true.
Or do the facts not matter in your narrative?

Here's the facts about fishing www.ochaopt.org/content/gaza-s-fisheries-record-expansion-fishing-limit-and-relative-increase-fish-catch-shooting
The Israeli navy monitors the coastline and prevents shipping accessing Gaza.

Access to power and water is limited. That doesn't mean there is none, simply that the supply is not reliable and therefore development is limited.

There has recently been oil found in the sea just off the Gaza coast. Who do you think will benefit from that discovery Phillipa60 the people of Gaza or Israel?

Here's the info about the Port of Gaza and the naval blockade
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Gaza

I don't think anyone should participate in this farce. It's not a song contest. It is political nonsense. The so-called singers get more more and freaky as the years go by and there isn't a decent song amongst them.

You're certainly right there Skydancer.! As I said, if Israel hadn't been under constant threat of annihilation ever since Hamas came to power, life would have been much easier for the people of Gaza including access to the sea. Terrorists can attack by sea and import weaponry at sea as well as overland.

I don't understand why its necessary to destroy water supplies and waste treatment plants, I do understand the need for Israel to defend itself.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68969239

The water tanks will have been damaged as a result of the fighting in Gaza. When there is war, infrastructure gets damaged.
Rather disproves the theory that water is only allowed into Gaza as and when the Israelis decide though, if there are huge water water tanks and waste treatment plants there.

Unfortunately terrorists tend to hide and operate in places where hopefully they'll be safe from bombing. Hospitals Schools and so on. Think WW2 and the devastation caused. War is terrible no matter how much you try to sanitize it.

maddyone

The water tanks will have been damaged as a result of the fighting in Gaza. When there is war, infrastructure gets damaged.
Rather disproves the theory that water is only allowed into Gaza as and when the Israelis decide though, if there are huge water water tanks and waste treatment plants there.

I didn't say water was only allowed in I said access to water was restricted. Much of the water in Gaza is produced by desalination plants, they need fuel to work. When fuel is restricted water is restricted.
Waste treatment plants require fuel.
About fuel
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_crisis_in_the_Gaza_Strip#:~:text=During%20the%202023%20Israel%E2%80%93Hamas,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_State_of_Palestine#:~:text=Almost%20all%20liquid%20fuel%20used,at%.

My deleted post has been returned and I’ve received an apology.

Thank you GN as I couldn’t understand what I’d said that had breached any guidelines,

tickingbird 👍

I had one deleted about a week ago tickingbird.
I didn’t think I’d broken guidelines because I quoted facts.
I outlined the facts about the events of 07/10.
Someone obviously didn’t like me doing that and reported me.
I’m glad you’ve been reinstated.

Jaberwok

Unfortunately terrorists tend to hide and operate in places where hopefully they'll be safe from bombing. Hospitals Schools and so on. Think WW2 and the devastation caused. War is terrible no matter how much you try to sanitize it.

My point is that there were very few sources of clean water and waste treatment the destruction of those sites was puzzling.

WaterAid "In the years prior to the war, water for bathing and laundry in the Palestinian territory has come mostly from a coastal aquifer that had become contaminated. About 97% of the water from that source doesn't meet World Health Organization standards for human consumption, the U.N. says

I understand that infrastructure is targeted when there are underground tunnels or missile sites. But no evidence on those images.

I did email them to ask why and received a very nice reply with an apology.

I know Geography was never my strong point at school, but when did Australia and Israel become a pqrt of Europe?????

If Hamas released the hostages and stopped the rockets being hurled into Israel, the war would stop. All I see in a nightmare are the those young people screaming and running for their lives, the young girl on the motor bike, the young mother and her two infants being lead to their deaths, the aftermath of those tortured bodies and just yesterday the picture put out by Hamas of a young man , obviously abused, and now by all accounts dead. Don't think mainstream media have reported this? Certainly not the BBC, but then of course they wouldn't. Sorry, but this is how I feel!

Franbern

I know Geography was never my strong point at school, but when did Australia and Israel become a pqrt of Europe?????

😂😂😂

The expansion of Europe!

You’re not the only one who feels that way Jaberwok.
We cannot look to the BBC for proper coverage of this particular war, sadly. There was no coverage of the death of this hostage unfortunately, unless someone else knows differently. I certainly didn’t see any. I’m watching BBC news now, but again it hasn’t been mentioned.

tickingbird

I did email them to ask why and received a very nice reply with an apology.

That’s good news tickingbird. I had a similar experience in being deleted, then reinstated. It was also on a discussion about Hamas-Israel - we must have silent critics who press the report button rather than open debate

Little coverage altogether in major news outlets, I think they wait for confirmation after claims, but they do put news out

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68998654
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67053011

I knew the Foreign Office are investigating the death of this man, although I doubt very much they’ll get anymore information other than that which has been released by Hamas.
Sadly this has not been reported on the main BBC News which is where many people get their news from.
They insist on describing Hamas as an organisation that the British government has proscribed as a terrorist organisation. They refuse to simply call it what it is: a terrorist organisation. I do not rely on the BBC for my news on this war as it is heavily edited to reflect their view. I watch BBC every day, but I look in other places too, notably The Guardian and The Daily Mail (to get both sides of the situation.)

"I watch BBC every day, but I look in other places too, notably The Guardian and The Daily Mail (to get both sides of the situation."

Yes, me too, and the Telegraph. Not much up in them, I think they don't rely on a Hamas report without confirmation.

Interesting aside - the BBC is the only outlet where you can get detailed news on Ukraine.