Is Islamophobia In Europe A Growing Concern?

So I should be phobic re Muslims? Should I alert family members , one of whom shares a flat with a Muslim?

It never fails to amaze me that any thread which starts with two completely different religions sparing for attention, always descends into Catholic v Protestant Can we at least agree that one side was as bad as the other? There were no Protestants in the early Church. When they emerged daring to suggest that there were other approaches and the original Church had fallen far from its values and were exploiting people, the flood gates opened against them. Unfortunately, even in our so called enlightened times, the human always resorts to violence first. Michel de Montaigne wrote about the Religious Wars of 1562-1598 which he lived through and which left over 3 million dead made up of both the opposing fronts of Christianity. His take on the whole thing was that Reason had been overtaken by Passion. I reflected on this and concluded that it had a ring of truth. Reason tells us a 20 year old singer is not personally responsible for her PM's actions. Passion over the war situation leads some to hold her responsible regardless. What we have to remember is that certain groups opposing each other want to dominate and have power over others. To do that long term you have to engage, and keep engaged, the young. That's why divide and rule works so well. Brainwash the young early enough to a particular view and you usually have them for life. It takes an enormous amount of effort to introduce them to new views.

GrannyRose15. Phobia means fear, straight and simple. Agoraphobia may to some be an irrational fear but is still “real”
ophidophobia, a fear of snakes..some may be perfectly harmless but the ordinary innocent non binary in the street can,t tell the difference. Phobia is fine until some highly respected wordsmith is asked to head a committee at an extortionate cost to the taxpayer to concoct a politically accepted word authorised by the far left

Rondoallaturc I think you could be the one in need of a statistician.

Rondoallaturc, what happened in Bristol?

Anyway, my mother's family was Catholic (long lost Spanish ancestors) and I can attest to a certain amount of prejudice.

Now to Islam: I'm very much afraid that I do see situations where it will be at loggerheads with UK law and education.

Rondoallaturc

Cossy. It’s a jolly good job that you are not a statistician. I’m sure that 2 acquaintances who have integrated is hardly a representative sample. Sadly there are not enough Katie590 s on this site. The evidence is clear and we will not be around to witness the full deadly repercussions. This said, 09/11, 07/07, Rotherham, Rochdale, Manchester, Oxford, Bristol, Charlie Hebdo, Boston marathon, lee Rigby, Madrid. 14356 killed as a result of Islamic violence from 09/11 to the beginning of 2016 and the rate is increasing daily. Are we really too afraid to admit this? These figures are ample grounds for fear…hence the suffix “phobia”

14,356? Are you sure? I'm afraid your figures don't seem to add up.

Please provide proof that the rate is increasing daily.

By the way..evidence…en.M.Wikipedia.org. List of Islamist terrorist attacks

Words with phobia at the end are. often taken to mean an irrational fear of something. I actually think this is incorrect and the words should be able to be used to denote a rational fear too. Does anyone know what word, or ending to use for a rational, justified fear if we are not allowed to use phobia?

Cossy. It’s a jolly good job that you are not a statistician. I’m sure that 2 acquaintances who have integrated is hardly a representative sample. Sadly there are not enough Katie590 s on this site. The evidence is clear and we will not be around to witness the full deadly repercussions. This said, 09/11, 07/07, Rotherham, Rochdale, Manchester, Oxford, Bristol, Charlie Hebdo, Boston marathon, lee Rigby, Madrid. 14356 killed as a result of Islamic violence from 09/11 to the beginning of 2016 and the rate is increasing daily. Are we really too afraid to admit this? These figures are ample grounds for fear…hence the suffix “phobia”

My husband is a Catholic. I am by no means ignorant of history, nor of ongoing problems in NI,

As ever GSM, fear some catholics, but it was a chicken and egg situation. An oppressed group struggling for freedom to worship as they wished. But that ended in 1830. But discrmination, fear and hatred affected catholics until the 1960s, only then did it start to trail off. Now it enconpassed in the general anti-religion comments most people feel free to make.

Of course when the government needed an army it was always ready to turn a blind eye and from the mid 18th century Irish made up to 40% of the rank and file in the army and even catholic officers were accpeted, as long as they did not practice their religion n the streets and frighten the horses.

You don't have to be black or a Muslim, all you need is to understand what racism is and no, a white person in the UK cannot be subjected to racism

Eh?

Ok, no problem.

Being fearful of the spread of Islam is not the same as being fearful of all Moslems.

Katie590

zakouma66

I'm sorry but where on earth does this fear of world expansion of Islam come from ? I just don't understand this at all.

I am fearful of wars, climate change, the mess the country is in.

Why don’t you understand that in many Muslim countries there has to be military rule to keep order and given the chance would descend into violence.
They are not only fighting neighbouring countries/cultures but each other internally, some say Islam is a peaceful culture we don’t see a lot of evidence for that.

Excuse me but please don't address me as if I were some sort of naive fool.

The situation is far more complex than your summary. Sadly many countries need the iron fist of military rule to maintain some sort of functioning.

There are things about Islam which don't sit well with me at all but that doesn't mean I am fearful of all Muslims.

As I said previously, I had a bad experince with a roofer. Does this mean I regard all tradespeople as crooks?

“You don't have to be black or a Muslim, all you need is to understand what racism is and no, a white person in the UK cannot be subjected to racism. They can be subjected to other abuses if they are gay, a woman, have a disability etc. The law exists to protect you.Your friend Mr Fox knows all about that, he lost his job because he said mysogynistic and highly offensive comments about a female reporter and had to pay £180,000 for accusing two gay men of being paedophiles. He needs to be marginalised but hopefully he is representative of a small minority of British people.“

I absolutely second this. I wouldn’t be quoting Lawrence Fox as anyone who’s been “marginalised” the whole idea of this is laughable. Aside from not losing his career (he’ll be getting lots of “repeat fees” for his work) he was a well known, outspoken, dangerous conspiracy theorist as well as being thoroughly unpleasant (imo)

zakouma66

I'm sorry but where on earth does this fear of world expansion of Islam come from ? I just don't understand this at all.

I am fearful of wars, climate change, the mess the country is in.

Why don’t you understand that in many Muslim countries there has to be military rule to keep order and given the chance would descend into violence.
They are not only fighting neighbouring countries/cultures but each other internally, some say Islam is a peaceful culture we don’t see a lot of evidence for that.

Anniel it's not the "fear" that is racist, it is the stereotypical tropes used to engender the fear that are racist. I might have an irrational fear of spiders but if I am being constantly told by the media that the spiders are a huge threat to me and my family, my irrational fear is going to increase not decrease.
fwiw Islamophobia is classified as being rooted in racism and tbh I think most people are aware of this as the things that get "trotted out" are never positive despite there being many positive attributes to being a practising Muslim.

As I said upthread, MOnica, in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries there was good reason to fear Catholics.

Freya5

Glorianny

There as a time when Catholicism was regarded much the same way some now regard Islam. It was an unfounded fear, so is this.

Wrong.

Freya writing as a catholic. Glorianny* is right and you are wrong.

You needonly to study the history of the Recusant families (families that refused to convert to Anglicanism, when Henry Viii decreed it. In the upper Thames valley where I live there were many of them, many were completely impoverished by heavy fines, they were excluded from university and all the professions until 1830, they could be arrested on the slightest pretext, and many were martyred. That is why so many catholic churches are dedicated to 'The English Martyrs.

Even after catholic emancipation in 1830, the prejudices remained deeply embedded. In the mid 1960s I had a few dates with someone who once he realised I was a catholic, dropped me immediately, explaining that his father was so anti-catholic he had been told that his father would cut him out of hsis life if he ever knew he was dating a catholic woman.

I agree, Anniel. It’s not, in my view, racist to express concern about the spread of Islam, about the way that some Muslim women are controlled and the desire of some Moslems to have Sharia law recognised in this country in lieu of UK law (it already is in the world of finance as transactions entered into by practising Moslems have to be structured in such a way as to be Sharia-compliant and I have no problem with that).

I'm sorry but where on earth does this fear of world expansion of Islam come from ? I just don't understand this at all.

I am fearful of wars, climate change, the mess the country is in.

I read all the comments and the discussion about divisions within the Christian faith are interesting.
I do not understand why some posters resort to labelling fear of a world expansion of Islam as being racist. Surely Islam does not belong to any particular race? There are white Muslims in Turkey. It annoys me that some people always resort to accusations of racism where it does not apply!

Barbadosbelle

..

What always angers me is the many times that I have read senior members of the black and Muslim community claim that it is impossible for white people to suffer from racism?

I think each time of the people I've read about who've lost their careers because they challenged such statements (a la Laurence Fox on the now unwatchable 'Question Time').

We are the majority who are now being marginalised.

..

You don't have to be black or a Muslim, all you need is to understand what racism is and no, a white person in the UK cannot be subjected to racism. They can be subjected to other abuses if they are gay, a woman, have a disability etc. The law exists to protect you.Your friend Mr Fox knows all about that, he lost his job because he said mysogynistic and highly offensive comments about a female reporter and had to pay £180,000 for accusing two gay men of being paedophiles. He needs to be marginalised but hopefully he is representative of a small minority of British people.

MaizieD

Freya5

Glorianny

There as a time when Catholicism was regarded much the same way some now regard Islam. It was an unfounded fear, so is this.

Wrong.

She's not wrong at all, Freya.

You perhaps have no idea about how utterly pervasive religion, and the differences between Catholics and Protestants, was from the 16th C until almost the present day.

I'd suggest that you study a bit of English history from the 1500s onward.

Don't see why you are so patronising. The statement was very ambiguous. "There as a time,"for starters, what does that mean. I have read, thank you, school marm, about the religious problems re Protestants and Catholics, remember Bloody Mary, the Oxford Martyrs.
Islam is another matter. We'll agree to very much disagree.