Is Islamophobia In Europe A Growing Concern?

Oreo

growstuff

Nicenanny3

Give it a rest keep reporting posters because they don't agree with you let posts stand. I agree with 13:21Rondoallaturc actually and probably a lot more posters do as well but are too timid to face the serial posters on here.

As I claimed, Islamophobia is rife. Why not just admit it?

But not as rife as antisemitism!

What an odd comment, both are despicable behaviours and potentially criminal. As far as I am aware there is no correlation between them or are you suggesting there is? Racism is racism regardless of which minority group is targetted and should be called out as wrong.

Vintagewhine

I was expressing an opinion that there are many reasons for terrorism and challenging your simplistic view that terrorism can be overcome by "moderate" Muslims telling "extremists" to stop. Muslims are not one homogeneous group and the vast majority of Muslim people have no influence over terrorists.

It can start in the mosques by Imams preaching against any extremist acts and sympathies, here in the UK, in Europe and the rest of the world.
How’s that for starters.
And your view that no poster can say extremist or moderate about anyone of the Muslim faith is simply barmy.

Islam is a religion not a race foxie48
My comment was far from odd btw it has everything to do with bias and prejudice, and antisemitism is surfacing and overtaking any instances of prejudice against those of the Muslim faith.
I think nanna8 has it right when she said that most people don’t dislike Muslims only extremist Muslims.
The thing is tho that here in the UK it’s the extremist ones causing death and destruction, which leads to fear/ phobia which is the same thing.

The rise of antisemitism is the thing to really worry about and I see it in so many places including forums.

There's the rub.

I'd never "pitch the one against the other", we can stand against both. The O/P opened on Islamaphobia, which is why its been discussed.

Oreo

Islam is a religion not a race foxie48
My comment was far from odd btw it has everything to do with bias and prejudice, and antisemitism is surfacing and overtaking any instances of prejudice against those of the Muslim faith.
I think nanna8 has it right when she said that most people don’t dislike Muslims only extremist Muslims.
The thing is tho that here in the UK it’s the extremist ones causing death and destruction, which leads to fear/ phobia which is the same thing.

It's possible for anti-semitism and Islamophobia to exist at the same time. There's no need to play bigotry Top Trumps! If you dig deep into some of the far-right groups in the UK today, they dislike Muslims and Jews in equal measure, although they're prone to playing one off against the other.

maddyone

Actually Iam, I think all those men of whatever background do know it’s wrong. They just don’t care.
I know boys are often abused, but I think both the grooming gangs and Epstein only targeted girls.

Nadir Afzal narrowed it down when he publicly stated ( Chanel 4 news) that Asian men of Pakistani Origen were disproportionately represented in street grooming gangs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MqrO6p2Woc.

Who would I believe, the home office or this truely honest good man.

Oreo

Islam is a religion not a race foxie48
My comment was far from odd btw it has everything to do with bias and prejudice, and antisemitism is surfacing and overtaking any instances of prejudice against those of the Muslim faith.
I think nanna8 has it right when she said that most people don’t dislike Muslims only extremist Muslims.
The thing is tho that here in the UK it’s the extremist ones causing death and destruction, which leads to fear/ phobia which is the same thing.

I don't think nanna8 has it right at all. CNN sponsored an international poll (I'll see if I can find it) and examined the attitude of thousands of people in different countries towards Muslims. From memory, about a quarter of the UK population showed anti-Muslim opinions, although admittedly that's much less than in Eastern Europe and some other "Western" countries. A significant number of people stated they wouldn't want a Muslim next door neighbour, although they weren't prepared to say why.

Of course it’s possible to call out both antisemitism and Islamaphobia at the same time.
I attempted to explain why people are worried about Muslim extremists here in the UK, there are no Jewish extremists here to worry about yet antisemitism is rife.
Why is that?

petra

maddyone

Actually Iam, I think all those men of whatever background do know it’s wrong. They just don’t care.
I know boys are often abused, but I think both the grooming gangs and Epstein only targeted girls.

Nadir Afzal narrowed it down when he publicly stated ( Chanel 4 news) that Asian men of Pakistani Origen were disproportionately represented in street grooming gangs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MqrO6p2Woc.

Who would I believe, the home office or this truely honest good man.

I believe him and I've never denied it, despite what some people on here claim. So what do you think should be done about it?

Incidentally, what he didn't say is that most of them originated from regions of the world where that kind of behaviour is ignored/tolerated - most Muslims don't come from such regions.

Oreo

Of course it’s possible to call out both antisemitism and Islamaphobia at the same time.
I attempted to explain why people are worried about Muslim extremists here in the UK, there are no Jewish extremists here to worry about yet antisemitism is rife.
Why is that?

I have never understood anti-semiticism, so I have no idea. What I do know is that it has existed for hundreds of years in one form or other and can't be denied. I also know that bigotry of all kinds has existed for hundreds of years. Interestingly, many Jewish thinkers have better answers than I have.

Oreo

Vintagewhine

I was expressing an opinion that there are many reasons for terrorism and challenging your simplistic view that terrorism can be overcome by "moderate" Muslims telling "extremists" to stop. Muslims are not one homogeneous group and the vast majority of Muslim people have no influence over terrorists.

It can start in the mosques by Imams preaching against any extremist acts and sympathies, here in the UK, in Europe and the rest of the world.
How’s that for starters.
And your view that no poster can say extremist or moderate about anyone of the Muslim faith is simply barmy.

Have you been in a mosque and listened to what the imams are saying? Have you ever spoken to an imam?

I am an atheist, although I was Christened. I see what is happening in the US in the name of Christianity, but I have absolutely no influence any more than my in-laws have any influence over what is happening in Afghanistan or Iran.

Oreo

Of course it’s possible to call out both antisemitism and Islamaphobia at the same time.
I attempted to explain why people are worried about Muslim extremists here in the UK, there are no Jewish extremists here to worry about yet antisemitism is rife.
Why is that?

Absolutely agree.
My reference to rows was an unsuccessful attempt to support growstuffs support for ‘ordinary Muslims’. Like many families we have familial links to the Muslim family of a new family member.
The increase in anti semitism, the protests in our universities really worry me

Oreo

Of course it’s possible to call out both antisemitism and Islamaphobia at the same time.
I attempted to explain why people are worried about Muslim extremists here in the UK, there are no Jewish extremists here to worry about yet antisemitism is rife.
Why is that?

Very long standing hatred and "othering" of Jews that unfortunately is still often inherent in our culture.

Oreo

Islam is a religion not a race foxie48
My comment was far from odd btw it has everything to do with bias and prejudice, and antisemitism is surfacing and overtaking any instances of prejudice against those of the Muslim faith.
I think nanna8 has it right when she said that most people don’t dislike Muslims only extremist Muslims.
The thing is tho that here in the UK it’s the extremist ones causing death and destruction, which leads to fear/ phobia which is the same thing.

Duh, I think I know that but Islamophobia is considered as being racist as in deed is anti semitism. It's only people who believe in the concept of "different races" that think racism is linked to race. It isn't. We all belong to the same race ie the human race. Actually every time a derogatory comment is made that treats Muslims as a homogenous group, it is a clear sign of racism. Even the description of Muslims who belong to terrorist groups being "extremist" is IMO potentially racist. They are terrorists who have their own agenda which is not Islamic and does not represent the teaching of the Qu'ran, they are a complete abomination of what it is to be a follower of Islam. TBH I have no problem in anyone disagreeing with me but if just one person stops thinking that their Muslim neighbour (who shares most if not all of their values) is not a part of some Islamic invasion, then I am perfectly content.

Only a small number of muslims are terrorists, but, as the protests all round the world have shown, many many more are passive supporters of their beliefs and enthusiasticaly share their rabid anti-semitism.

MOnica, your words are stronger than I’d have used but I ‘d find it very difficult to disagree with their sentiment. Maybe not rabid anti semitism in all cases but …..

M0nica

Only a small number of muslims are terrorists, but, as the protests all round the world have shown, many many more are passive supporters of their beliefs and enthusiasticaly share their rabid anti-semitism.

Hmmm ... not sure that's absolutely true MOnica. I agree that there rabid anti-semites have latched on to the latest protests about Palestine, but that's not the whole story. What percentage of the 1.9 billion Muslims worldwide do you reckon passively accept anti-semitism? My guess is that it's very few. I think you'd probably find that many Muslims (eg in Indonesia) don't even know that much about what's going on in the Middle East. We tend to be very Euro-centric in our knowledge.

When Corbyn was accused of being anti-semitic, I was shocked and initially didn't believe it, but then I spoke to my son, who was a university student at the time and he confirmed that many of his peers who identified as far left were anti-semitic. He was studying politics, so was interested in the reasoning. It was mainly the old tropes about Jews controlling the financial world and didn't only involve Muslims. Ironically, some of those people who originally saw themselves as "left" have now turned to the far right. Anne Marie Waters, who is currently a member of UKIP, is one of them (there are others).

growstuff

Oreo

Vintagewhine

I was expressing an opinion that there are many reasons for terrorism and challenging your simplistic view that terrorism can be overcome by "moderate" Muslims telling "extremists" to stop. Muslims are not one homogeneous group and the vast majority of Muslim people have no influence over terrorists.

It can start in the mosques by Imams preaching against any extremist acts and sympathies, here in the UK, in Europe and the rest of the world.
How’s that for starters.
And your view that no poster can say extremist or moderate about anyone of the Muslim faith is simply barmy.

Have you been in a mosque and listened to what the imams are saying? Have you ever spoken to an imam?

I am an atheist, although I was Christened. I see what is happening in the US in the name of Christianity, but I have absolutely no influence any more than my in-laws have any influence over what is happening in Afghanistan or Iran.

Why would I have spoken to an Imam or been in a mosque?
It was my answer to the question of what can moderate Muslims do to counteract extremism in their midst.
If all Imams spoke out against extreme versions of Islam that terrorists practised then that would be a good start.It needs all of them tho to do this, to show there’s no place here in the UK for these abhorrent views.Preachers do have influence.

It was obvious at the time that Corbyn and so many far left followers had only Muslim sympathies where the middle east was concerned.The one good thing is his replacement Starmer, who is married to a Jewish woman and has done much to root out antisemitism within the Party.They’re still there tho, no doubt brooding and biding their time.

M0nica 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

growstuff

M0nica

Only a small number of muslims are terrorists, but, as the protests all round the world have shown, many many more are passive supporters of their beliefs and enthusiasticaly share their rabid anti-semitism.

Hmmm ... not sure that's absolutely true MOnica. I agree that there rabid anti-semites have latched on to the latest protests about Palestine, but that's not the whole story. What percentage of the 1.9 billion Muslims worldwide do you reckon passively accept anti-semitism? My guess is that it's very few. I think you'd probably find that many Muslims (eg in Indonesia) don't even know that much about what's going on in the Middle East. We tend to be very Euro-centric in our knowledge.

When Corbyn was accused of being anti-semitic, I was shocked and initially didn't believe it, but then I spoke to my son, who was a university student at the time and he confirmed that many of his peers who identified as far left were anti-semitic. He was studying politics, so was interested in the reasoning. It was mainly the old tropes about Jews controlling the financial world and didn't only involve Muslims. Ironically, some of those people who originally saw themselves as "left" have now turned to the far right. Anne Marie Waters, who is currently a member of UKIP, is one of them (there are others).

What percentage? Your guess is very few my guess is lots.

Oreo

It was obvious at the time that Corbyn and so many far left followers had only Muslim sympathies where the middle east was concerned.The one good thing is his replacement Starmer, who is married to a Jewish woman and has done much to root out antisemitism within the Party.They’re still there tho, no doubt brooding and biding their time.

As recent local elections confirm

Iam64

Oreo

It was obvious at the time that Corbyn and so many far left followers had only Muslim sympathies where the middle east was concerned.The one good thing is his replacement Starmer, who is married to a Jewish woman and has done much to root out antisemitism within the Party.They’re still there tho, no doubt brooding and biding their time.

As recent local elections confirm

But only in a limited number of constituencies. Turnout in local elections is so low that anybody who can whip up a few hundred supporters can win. If people are really that bothered, they should get their heads together and vote against them.

Oreo

growstuff

M0nica

Only a small number of muslims are terrorists, but, as the protests all round the world have shown, many many more are passive supporters of their beliefs and enthusiasticaly share their rabid anti-semitism.

Hmmm ... not sure that's absolutely true MOnica. I agree that there rabid anti-semites have latched on to the latest protests about Palestine, but that's not the whole story. What percentage of the 1.9 billion Muslims worldwide do you reckon passively accept anti-semitism? My guess is that it's very few. I think you'd probably find that many Muslims (eg in Indonesia) don't even know that much about what's going on in the Middle East. We tend to be very Euro-centric in our knowledge.

When Corbyn was accused of being anti-semitic, I was shocked and initially didn't believe it, but then I spoke to my son, who was a university student at the time and he confirmed that many of his peers who identified as far left were anti-semitic. He was studying politics, so was interested in the reasoning. It was mainly the old tropes about Jews controlling the financial world and didn't only involve Muslims. Ironically, some of those people who originally saw themselves as "left" have now turned to the far right. Anne Marie Waters, who is currently a member of UKIP, is one of them (there are others).

What percentage? Your guess is very few my guess is lots.

As neither of has any concrete evidence, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Many people in other parts of the world have no idea what's going on in the Middle East. Tribal warfare and genocide is almost normalised in some parts of the world, so they just think of it as a "local" disagreement. Not many people in the UK know much about the history of genocides in Cambodia or Rwanda. Other people show the same lack of interest in European or Middle East affairs.