Is Islamophobia In Europe A Growing Concern?

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I think "Stop haranguing another poster." is good advice. It's a nasty device to create a descent into just attacking personally instead of putting forward a thoughtful POV.

However there is a red line which crosses GN guidelines, and racism is one of them.

On here, asserting that because a small minority of a group do X or Y, they are supported by all of that group.

Non muslims on the GN board do not all think the same and we express a huge variety of political and cultural POV but we don't get "Tarred with the same brush", which is what some posters continually try to do with Muslims.

Let me say it in words of one syllable or as near as I can. In this country we first started responding to terrorist attacks in the 1970s. It started with the IRA and extra protection of miitary and security sites.

Gradually, step by step, as various other terrorist groups established themselves and threatened us in new and different ways, we introduced new and different measures to meet these new and different threats.

None of this negates the fact that we first started introducing security measures in the 1970s to deal with the threat from the IRA.

I am sure in future more measures will be introduced if the nature of the hreats we get change, and may be some no longer used. As to where these threats come from, who knows. it could be Islamic based, or Extreme right wingers, or groups that at present we cannot imagine being a threat. Morris dancers, Boy Scouts or even the Boys Brigade.

Rondoallaturc- your post at 13.21 is also racist.
Nicenanny3 I don’t agree with you that racist posts should be allowed to stand. They’re clearly against guidelines.

Growstuff - Epstein and grooming gangs both targeted teenage girls and boys who were easily identified as vulnerable. They exploited them, sexually trafficked and abused.
The common dominator was men who don’t see what they’re doing as wrong

Callistemon21 The security on planes was not to do with IRA terrorism. It was as a result of British intelligence discovering plots by Al Qaeda to carry explosives in drinks bottles on to planes.

Many of us remember the heightened security measures during the years of the IRA bomb attacks but such restrictions on planes were not introduced then.

Agreed.

My first recall of restrictions on flying/planes is soon after the planes crashed the World Trade Center in NY. My brother missed his flight on the Lockerbie aircraft, I remember no restrictions after that incident, except the German response of random exceedingly steep departures for a bit of time.

Air security seems to have started in 2001. We were going to NY on business fall 2001, our plans changed because of flight security difficulties.

Actually Iam, I think all those men of whatever background do know it’s wrong. They just don’t care.
I know boys are often abused, but I think both the grooming gangs and Epstein only targeted girls.

Whilst it maybe true that security was tightened around military sites in the 1970s, it is most certainly true that the non military population were not impacted in the way they are now, when getting on aeroplanes for example, or when visiting public buildings buildings such as museums/theatres/concert halls etc. In the 70s we were told to be aware of our surroundings, to report any unidentified, suspicious packages, and not to leave our bags unattended or they may be removed. No other restrictions were imposed or applied to non military citizens. Now we have far more security that involves us all regularly. I’m going to Seville on Sunday and because it’s a short break, we’re only taking hand baggage. That means I’ve had to think about what liquids I need and buy overpriced travel sizes. Remember even face cream and sun cream fall into the category of liquids. This impacts on my day to day life in a way that IRA terrorism never did. Nonetheless I am happy to comply with all restrictions because I know it is for the safety of myself and others.

Nicenanny3. Thanks for your support. You are of course spot on in your analysis. I have had a post removed after being reported by someone who is afraid of the truth. The post contained nothing inaccurate. We must all strive on this site not to be intimidated by others…this has become a feature of society whereby ordinary people,s daily routine can be halted by law-breakers who transgress in the name of peaceful protest, whereby criticising the actions of certain groups is put down to racism, all supported by an establishment that will not act to uphold the law for fear of being branded far right, fascist and the like. The far left will ultimately do far more lasting damage to this country than those, often very ridiculously branded far right.

The post speaks for itself growstuff.

M0nica

Let me say it in words of one syllable or as near as I can. In this country we first started responding to terrorist attacks in the 1970s. It started with the IRA and extra protection of miitary and security sites.

Gradually, step by step, as various other terrorist groups established themselves and threatened us in new and different ways, we introduced new and different measures to meet these new and different threats.

None of this negates the fact that we first started introducing security measures in the 1970s to deal with the threat from the IRA.

I am sure in future more measures will be introduced if the nature of the hreats we get change, and may be some no longer used. As to where these threats come from, who knows. it could be Islamic based, or Extreme right wingers, or groups that at present we cannot imagine being a threat. Morris dancers, Boy Scouts or even the Boys Brigade.

Oh yes! I used to travel though Liverpool Lime Street station to go to school in the early 1970s. After one IRA attack, I remember very well that all the bins were removed (so that bombs couldn't be left) and the place was crawling with police. It stayed that way.

Anybody who doesn't think there was a fear of Irish people wasn't brought up on Merseyside.

Germanshepherdsmum

The post speaks for itself growstuff.

Indeed! I have never been afraid of the truth or challenging untruths.

Iam64

Growstuff - Epstein and grooming gangs both targeted teenage girls and boys who were easily identified as vulnerable. They exploited them, sexually trafficked and abused.
The common dominator was men who don’t see what they’re doing as wrong

But we don't label all men as vile sex offenders.

M0nica

Let me say it in words of one syllable or as near as I can. In this country we first started responding to terrorist attacks in the 1970s. It started with the IRA and extra protection of miitary and security sites.

Gradually, step by step, as various other terrorist groups established themselves and threatened us in new and different ways, we introduced new and different measures to meet these new and different threats.

None of this negates the fact that we first started introducing security measures in the 1970s to deal with the threat from the IRA.

I am sure in future more measures will be introduced if the nature of the hreats we get change, and may be some no longer used. As to where these threats come from, who knows. it could be Islamic based, or Extreme right wingers, or groups that at present we cannot imagine being a threat. Morris dancers, Boy Scouts or even the Boys Brigade.

Yes, and even way before that M0nica

However, I doubt very much that the three groups you mention: that at present we cannot imagine being a threat. Morris dancers, Boy Scouts or even the Boys Brigade. would be a threat. But you know that.

Terrorist and extremist groups consist of angry, disaffected, prejudiced people who have been radicalised by malign force.
How many of those persuading young people, even children, to become suicide bombers for some cause ever put their own lives in danger?

That is why I mentioned them, because in 20, 30 years from now, we do not know how these groups or any other totally innocent, now, group may transmogrify into a terrorist group.

I admit is it more likely that one of our political parties, could, after a disastrous election result have some of its more extreme supporters decide to force government change through demonstrations, each getting more extreme, then a couple of people going off and setting a bomb off, and then recruiting.

Remember that the Suffragettes were the first terrorist group in this country; setting fire to buildings and house en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaigns

Callistemon The Dunblane murderer had been the head of several youth groups and, following complaints, had had his Scout Warrant withdrawn.

Admittedly, he didn't radicalise young people - he just murdered a few of them instead.

I agree that most terrorists are probably angry and disaffected (not that I know any personally), so when a whole group of people becomes marginalised it's easy to see how they can become angry and disaffected. It's not just terrorists who become "radicalised". We've seen throughout history that defeated groups (or those who see themselves as victims) are attracted to charismatic leaders who promise them a better life, as individuals and for their country (or group).

M0nica

That is why I mentioned them, because in 20, 30 years from now, we do not know how these groups or any other totally innocent, now, group may transmogrify into a terrorist group.

I admit is it more likely that one of our political parties, could, after a disastrous election result have some of its more extreme supporters decide to force government change through demonstrations, each getting more extreme, then a couple of people going off and setting a bomb off, and then recruiting.

Remember that the Suffragettes were the first terrorist group in this country; setting fire to buildings and house en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette_bombing_and_arson_campaigns

That's why it's so important that people believe their government is working for them.

I skipped from the first page to the last again.
Only the ignorant would refer to Muslims as one heterogeneous group.
Muslims may practice or discard their faith like any other believer.
If someone says Christians are dangerous what kind of Christian comes to your mind?
Same for Jews, Buddhist, Hindu etc etc.
I am not worried about Muslims.
I do worry about anyone who wishes ill on others.

You need to RTFT to follow the posts.

growstuff of course we don’t label all men as vile sex offenders whether they’re white, Jewish or Muslim. The fact remains the majority of sex offenders are male

Iam64

growstuff of course we don’t label all men as vile sex offenders whether they’re white, Jewish or Muslim. The fact remains the majority of sex offenders are male

That's my point Iam64. A tiny percentage of males are sex offenders.

Just as a tiny proportion of Muslims are terrorists. That’s the point I was labouring. I wasn’t looking for a row simply pointing out CSE isn’t confined to one ethic group

growstuff

Nicenanny3

Give it a rest keep reporting posters because they don't agree with you let posts stand. I agree with 13:21Rondoallaturc actually and probably a lot more posters do as well but are too timid to face the serial posters on here.

As I claimed, Islamophobia is rife. Why not just admit it?

But not as rife as antisemitism!

keepingquiet

I skipped from the first page to the last again.
Only the ignorant would refer to Muslims as one heterogeneous group.
Muslims may practice or discard their faith like any other believer.
If someone says Christians are dangerous what kind of Christian comes to your mind?
Same for Jews, Buddhist, Hindu etc etc.
I am not worried about Muslims.
I do worry about anyone who wishes ill on others.

Read the whole thread.
It used to be here in the UK that the IRA were the ones to cause trouble and fear and now it’s changed to extremist Muslims that we need to worry about.
Not just here but all over the world.

Iam64

Just as a tiny proportion of Muslims are terrorists. That’s the point I was labouring. I wasn’t looking for a row simply pointing out CSE isn’t confined to one ethic group

The point is tho, that this minority are a big problem all over, and not confined to Europe.
Few of us are looking for a row but are expressing our concerns.
The rise of antisemitism is the thing to really worry about and I see it in so many places including forums.