Is Islamophobia In Europe A Growing Concern?

Germanshepherdsmum

Or there is this more recent report from UCL.
www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2020/dec/analysis-new-home-office-report-admits-grooming-gangs-are-not-muslim-problem

In 2015 Nazir Afzal publicly stated that Asian men were disproportionately involved in grooming gangs.
We can only hope that the home office report is accurate.

www.google.com/search?q=Afzal+nadir+%2B+pakistani+grooming+gangs&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:c631cc9a,vid:0MqrO6p2Woc,st:0

Katie590

Young girls are being abused by gangs of all kinds, because children are being sexualised earlier there is a higher proportion going off the rails. They get involved with the “bad boys” because it’s exciting, then first it’s presents, then alcohol, then drugs. The girls are easy meat, many are in care without any effective restriction on what they do.

The police know exactly what is happening but all they can do is take the girls home knowing they will be out next day.

Wow! This is exactly the attitude that enabled these vile men to get away with their horrible criminal behaviour for so long. These girls needed and deserved to be protected just like any other girl, their situations made them vulnerable to grooming and any suggestion that they in any way contributed to what happened to them is, frankly, victim blaming of the worst sort.

Maisie. The tone of your last post, first sentence would suggest that the incidents referred to should not be brought up because they are insignificant. I can only believe this is because they are white disadvantaged girls. The sheer ignorance of the second sentence is astonishing.. the statistics were provided and they clearly show the extent to which Muslim men went to defile “white trash”. By the way I cannot find statistics that show a similar level of abuse meted out by other groups. And yes, the official report does show collusion within the community and within the authorities both the police and the councils who were afraid of Muslim response and community destabilisation. Fear of, and reaction against a phenomenon such as this does not constitute racism. It is rather a normal reaction towards certain factions that have a considerable track record of vile, subhuman behaviour.

Rondoallaturc 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

1. Terrorism

2. Grooming gangs ( mainly men of Pakastani origin)

3. British Muslims

4. People seeking asylum , sometimes coming on boats.

These are being lumped together and presented in a negative light. Whats the link?

Oreo

Terrorism tho, is the main reason fuelling Islamaphobia, in non muslim countries.It isn’t an irrational fear and is understandable given all the awful attacks.

There are 1.9 billion Muslims in the world, how many of them are involved in terrorist attacks? A tiny percentage. Do terrorist groups represent the majority of Muslims? No, most Muslims are just like you and me and want to get on living their lives in peace and security. I am far more likely to be injured or die in a car but I don't have a car phobia. I am far more likely to be killed by someone in my family but I don't live in fear of my relatives. You are far more likely to die in a domestic situation or if you are a male aged 13-19 than in a terrorist attack, so why is Islamaphobia being fuelled by a fear of terrorist attacks? Plain and simple answer is that it isn't, it is being fuelled by racism.

Oreo

The big grooming gangs that were found to be almost all of Pakistani heritage in Rotherham, Oxford and other places can’t be ignored.That was the problem in the first place, police SS and teachers being worried by the situation but afraid of being called racist so turned a blind eye to it.Hope that never happens again but your post MaizieD would make sad reading for any of those girls.
It hasn’t anything to do with terrorism but is yet another reason for unease in the mind of the general public.

Another one ignoring the research. Grooming gangs are just as likely to be white British.

Pointing out the inherent racism in a post does not make me tolerant of the abuse that was detailed nor does it mean I was ignoring it. It means I am objecting to the determined and unjustified 'othering' of a specific group.

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Rondoallaturc

Growstuff. My figures certainly add up. I painstakingly added them up from the document to which I referred in my subsequent post. Check out before making bind assertions. Also I did not say that anyone was in need of a statistician. Having taught Statistics and Maths, I, alongside 99.99999% of the population have sufficient intellect to realise that 2 cases do not constitute fair representation

And I don’t think I claimed they were! As you are very well aware it was simply an example.

25Avalon

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Laughable. What on earth is Muslimism?

What has to be realised is that probably or possibly the majority posting on here lived through an era when, as far as I can remember, terrorist attacks (prior to those committed by the IRA) in the UK were unheard of. Which is maybe why some respond to the "I-just-want-my-country-back" rhetoric of the Right - like the new Reform Party.

However, I do remember being concerned that we might be annihilated by a nuclear bomb.

During the era of the IRA attacks, Catholics were definitely discriminated against. How much I don't know; it happened to someone in my family - "are you from Southern Ireland?" she was aggressively questioned by a complete stranger in a shop.

I also remember that it could at times be rather contentious to discuss Irish politics, unless you adopted the government's 'line' on the issues. Delving into Irish history risked you being labelled an "IRA sympathiser".

The thing is, getting-your-country-back is rather meaningless - back from where and back to what point? Immigration has been a constant throughout history, to some degree or other - as with other nations.

Capitalism was always going to evolve into global Capitalism and with it cheap labour from poorer / developing nations; which gives us access to a wide variety of goods. Against a backdrop of continuing wars and aggressions, it is also inevitable that those from the "flexible" labour pool with their concomitant job insecurity and low wages are going to look to the more affluent countries for a better standard of living.

We are not an island entire of itself we are a piece of the continent... borrowing from John Donne.

So there is no going back.

Oreo

The big grooming gangs that were found to be almost all of Pakistani heritage in Rotherham, Oxford and other places can’t be ignored.That was the problem in the first place, police SS and teachers being worried by the situation but afraid of being called racist so turned a blind eye to it.Hope that never happens again but your post MaizieD would make sad reading for any of those girls.
It hasn’t anything to do with terrorism but is yet another reason for unease in the mind of the general public.

I agree Oreo.

Furthermore, for sure the mainly Pakistani gangs that groomed and raped 1400 girls in Rotherham, and others in other towns and cities, were most certainly racist! They were racist because they chose to groom and rape white girls! Not Muslim or Pakistani or any other ethnicity, but white girls.

These vile men were the racists, not those who see their racist behaviour for what it was/is.

And yes, we all know that higher numbers of groomers and abusers are white. That’s because 85% of the British population are white, so clearly the numbers will be higher. Let’s not forget either, that most abuse occurs in the home, in particular by stepparents. But none of that changes the fact that white girls were targeted, groomed, and raped by men of other ethnicities simply because those girls were white!

The men who abused the girls in Rochdale were going completely AGAINST the 'rules' of Islam! Rape and sexual abuse is abhorred by real Muslims and of course alcohol is prohibited, so these men were not being motivated to commit the appalling abuse by the Muslim religion.

The abuse of children by Catholic priests is not motivated by Christianity either; it goes against Christian teachings.

I think it is more of a story for news media to somehow blame a religion for abuse; as far as I know, no religion advocates abuse of an innocent human being. Whatever religion or absence of religion they were brought up in, abuse of children and/or adults is done by 'bad' people, who are present as a tiny minority, in every single race, nationality, belief and religion.

Dickens

What has to be realised is that probably or possibly the majority posting on here lived through an era when, as far as I can remember, terrorist attacks (prior to those committed by the IRA) in the UK were unheard of. Which is maybe why some respond to the "I-just-want-my-country-back" rhetoric of the Right - like the new Reform Party.

However, I do remember being concerned that we might be annihilated by a nuclear bomb.

During the era of the IRA attacks, Catholics were definitely discriminated against. How much I don't know; it happened to someone in my family - "are you from Southern Ireland?" she was aggressively questioned by a complete stranger in a shop.

I also remember that it could at times be rather contentious to discuss Irish politics, unless you adopted the government's 'line' on the issues. Delving into Irish history risked you being labelled an "IRA sympathiser".

The thing is, getting-your-country-back is rather meaningless - back from where and back to what point? Immigration has been a constant throughout history, to some degree or other - as with other nations.

Capitalism was always going to evolve into global Capitalism and with it cheap labour from poorer / developing nations; which gives us access to a wide variety of goods. Against a backdrop of continuing wars and aggressions, it is also inevitable that those from the "flexible" labour pool with their concomitant job insecurity and low wages are going to look to the more affluent countries for a better standard of living.

We are not an island entire of itself we are a piece of the continent... borrowing from John Donne.

So there is no going back.

Completely agree.

Dickens

What has to be realised is that probably or possibly the majority posting on here lived through an era when, as far as I can remember, terrorist attacks (prior to those committed by the IRA) in the UK were unheard of. Which is maybe why some respond to the "I-just-want-my-country-back" rhetoric of the Right - like the new Reform Party.

However, I do remember being concerned that we might be annihilated by a nuclear bomb.

During the era of the IRA attacks, Catholics were definitely discriminated against. How much I don't know; it happened to someone in my family - "are you from Southern Ireland?" she was aggressively questioned by a complete stranger in a shop.

I also remember that it could at times be rather contentious to discuss Irish politics, unless you adopted the government's 'line' on the issues. Delving into Irish history risked you being labelled an "IRA sympathiser".

The thing is, getting-your-country-back is rather meaningless - back from where and back to what point? Immigration has been a constant throughout history, to some degree or other - as with other nations.

Capitalism was always going to evolve into global Capitalism and with it cheap labour from poorer / developing nations; which gives us access to a wide variety of goods. Against a backdrop of continuing wars and aggressions, it is also inevitable that those from the "flexible" labour pool with their concomitant job insecurity and low wages are going to look to the more affluent countries for a better standard of living.

We are not an island entire of itself we are a piece of the continent... borrowing from John Donne.

So there is no going back.

I worked for an Irish company during the time of IRA bombings, which actually went on for a very long time. It was awful to hear the way many English tarred all the Irish as “terrorists”. I worked between Dublin and London and it was incredibly sad to see a an entire nation blamed for a small present age of evil terrorists. Then again you’ve only got to look back at the English’s treatment of the Irish historically.

My Irish husband came across here, with a very strong Irish accent, he soon lost it and was totally bewildered as a young child to see sign on B&Bs close to where he lived stating “No dogs, No Blacks, No Irish”. His late father never lost his lovely Irish lilt and was discriminated against many many times. My husband soon adopted a “London” accent to stop being bullied at school. Is this where we want to return? I certainly don’t!

choughdancer

The men who abused the girls in Rochdale were going completely AGAINST the 'rules' of Islam! Rape and sexual abuse is abhorred by real Muslims and of course alcohol is prohibited, so these men were not being motivated to commit the appalling abuse by the Muslim religion.

The abuse of children by Catholic priests is not motivated by Christianity either; it goes against Christian teachings.

I think it is more of a story for news media to somehow blame a religion for abuse; as far as I know, no religion advocates abuse of an innocent human being. Whatever religion or absence of religion they were brought up in, abuse of children and/or adults is done by 'bad' people, who are present as a tiny minority, in every single race, nationality, belief and religion.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

All well and good but it’s not just about grooming gangs is it?
It’s mainly about terrorist attacks, often appalling like the Manchester Arena one, the bus attack in London, the London Bridge one and many others which are carried out by extremist Muslims.Not Irish/ Catholic/ Hindu/ Jewish or any other religion.Their aim in Europe is to sow fear and to further the cause of an Islamist Caliphate.
How many times travelling on the London tube has anyone eyed with worry a bearded young man with a backpack? So they are certainly sowing fear, phobia, and non irrational.

Following cloughdancer's post,

I liked Dickens post on the previous page who talked about her neighbour and pointed out that "A day in the life of Mrs Aziz" was hardly headline grabbing and how we are so taken with picking out negative examples we ignore the fact that most people of Muslim origin live alongside us with perfectly ordinary lives. Alongside us at work, when we visit the doctor (like mine) or dentist, watching children play together in the playgrounds at school (yes I live in a multicultural city).

Hate breeds hate and fear: I suggesting we look at the positives, the ordinary, the everyday, a human beings. No, not to ignore those of any background who are criminals, but to be much more aware of how some of the media often seizes on those examples to weave into an Islamophobic narrative.

It isn’t about seizing on negatives it’s about facts and what is actually happening.
We can be aware that most Muslims don’t want to blow us up while realising and admitting that the ones who do want to are carrying out extremist acts for Islam.There are also those who don’t carry out terrorist attacks but sympathise with those who do and their ideals. It doesn’t have to rule your life ( this fear) but you have to acknowledge it’s there.

Oreo

All well and good but it’s not just about grooming gangs is it?
It’s mainly about terrorist attacks, often appalling like the Manchester Arena one, the bus attack in London, the London Bridge one and many others which are carried out by extremist Muslims.Not Irish/ Catholic/ Hindu/ Jewish or any other religion.Their aim in Europe is to sow fear and to further the cause of an Islamist Caliphate.
How many times travelling on the London tube has anyone eyed with worry a bearded young man with a backpack? So they are certainly sowing fear, phobia, and non irrational.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

foxie48

Katie590

Young girls are being abused by gangs of all kinds, because children are being sexualised earlier there is a higher proportion going off the rails. They get involved with the “bad boys” because it’s exciting, then first it’s presents, then alcohol, then drugs. The girls are easy meat, many are in care without any effective restriction on what they do.

The police know exactly what is happening but all they can do is take the girls home knowing they will be out next day.

Wow! This is exactly the attitude that enabled these vile men to get away with their horrible criminal behaviour for so long. These girls needed and deserved to be protected just like any other girl, their situations made them vulnerable to grooming and any suggestion that they in any way contributed to what happened to them is, frankly, victim blaming of the worst sort.

I’m not victim blaming there always will be precocious young girls that are vulnerable, they want to have “fun” these “gangs” meet them outside the school gate and flatter “seduce” them. The girls think they can control it, they can for a while, until alcohol and drugs are involved, parents loose control, and care homes don’t restrict them effectively.

It’s not the girls fault they have been seduced, society allows that the happen, we have no way of stopping them from associating with older men, when the threat is obvious.

Oreo. True to say that it doesn’t have to rule your life. The sad truth is that it is ruling our lives. Was it for aesthetic considerations that concrete blocks and cast iron barriers have erected outside public buildings. Is it simple curiosity that induces security officials even at a performance of Lion King in a theatre of all places, to examine the contents of our handbags. Do we relish the opportunity to pay exorbitant charges for bottled water in an airport lounge? It is true that the vast majority do not want acts of terrorism “in the name of Allah”. The trouble is a) you know statistically that itis unlikely to be perpetrated by a Hindu or Buddhist or Wesleyan and b) the good ones and bad ones are indistinguishable.

11:35Rondoallaturc

I agree with all of your posts well said 👏👏👏

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Oreo

All well and good but it’s not just about grooming gangs is it?
It’s mainly about terrorist attacks, often appalling like the Manchester Arena one, the bus attack in London, the London Bridge one and many others which are carried out by extremist Muslims.Not Irish/ Catholic/ Hindu/ Jewish or any other religion.Their aim in Europe is to sow fear and to further the cause of an Islamist Caliphate.
How many times travelling on the London tube has anyone eyed with worry a bearded young man with a backpack? So they are certainly sowing fear, phobia, and non irrational.

Terrorists by their very nature aim to terrorise, destroy and annihilate - that we know.

What better way to recruit young men (and sometimes even women) than to appropriate the faith they hold dear and re-fashion it to the extent that anyone outside of it can be considered the Godless heretic enemy of it?

How difficult is it to 'radicalise', for example, a young man whose own personal life might be such that his human frailties, his 'social inadequacies' leave him feeling powerless and insignificant - especially if he is from an impoverished background. When you see film footage of such men riding around in Toyotas with a magazine of bullets strapped across their chests holding aloft some enormous piece of weaponry - is this just about religion, or is it the age-old reflection of men's ego and its need to dominate? Isn't that why such men repress their womenfolk - because otherwise, they are a threat to their self-perceived, self-importance and self-worth?

What I mean is that Islam itself is, or can be, a very useful and powerful philosophy to give meaning and structure to inadequate men, basically. Which is not to suggest that all young Muslim men are ineffectual or 'lacking', but, in common with other men - their egos, their testosterone-fuelled need for 'power' does make them a buoyant pool from which to recruit by those who've commandeered Islam for their own agenda.

Don't shoot me - it's just a personal POV which I've arrived at through thinking about Islam as a religion, and also as a creed which can be distorted to fulfil an agenda.

How this might attract women, I've no idea - unless of course they subscribe to the 'dominant' male ideology.