Labour. Our next Government.

The latter can be achieved far more quickly than the former - and having been involved in the creation of a very large new settlement - you wouldn’t call it a town - I can tell you it takes decades. As with so many things, Labour rely on the electorate being ill-informed, and from what I read on GN they’re not far wrong.

Neither of those issues are relevant to whether we need a change of government or not. Immigration is at a record high with the Tories in power, look at the levels when Labour left power.
Look at figure 2 on this graph.
migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

Thought it was exactly that I am politically homeless. As I won’t vote Labour while Rayner , Thornberry , Lammy and Starmer are involved and I don’t trust sunak after reading the plot by Nadine dorries is snything to go by , I hsve fact checked it and no one has refuted the words in it , it seems that Cummings and Gove are behind dirty tricks . So for me I don’t know what to do

GSM you paint a very over-simplified picture when you say those who can work should work. Who decides whether they can work or not? I have a friend who is a judge, dealing with benefit claims and she has told me accounts that really distress me, about the attitude of some of her colleagues, and the medical people that work alongside her, who are most definitely biased against claimants and work to dismiss any claim they can. The idea that the system can be trusted to be fair is, in my opinion, without foundation. I have clients who fear their PIP will be taken away, even though they most certainly need it. People should not have to live in fear. Yes, there have been challenges for this government - there always are, but the fact is that pretty much everything is in decline around us. It's a complicated picture, but I, for one, believe things could have been done better. I have to say that any party that could let Liz Truss come to power is highly questionable - for goodness sake. I was brought up to vote Tory, but I now think for myself and I do not think any political party is worth undying loyalty - to me that makes no sense at all. Will Labour do better? Sadly they may well not, but it's time for someone else to have a chance - surely!

Labour will be in charge very soon. Do the people of this country want more new towns like Milton Keynes? Or do they want a huge reduction in immigration?

You’re painting a picture of furlough being a uniquely UK, Tory government initiative Germanshepherdsmum. It wasn’t, it happened all over the world, and it would have happened in the UK whoever was in government
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/explainer/coronavirus-how-countries-supported-wages-during-pandemic

Eloethan

Cossy It is true that the furlough scheme was one of the better decisions made by the government. However, I believe it was a choice born of necessity rather than benevolence. Given that many individuals could not conduct their businesses or attend their place of work during lockdown, what else could have been done? Had no support been offered, many businesses would have closed, many people would have lost their jobs and the economy would have gone into complete freefall, with truly disastrous consequences.

But there is now abundant information available that evidences the massive amount of fraud which took place with regard to the furlough scheme, and the procurement of PEP. Also, the track and trace system, which is on record as costing at least £27 billion, was ill thought out and subsequently proved to be ineffective.

I agree that there are certainly MPs of all political colours who take their positions seriously and act with integrity and respect for the people they represent. However, there have been so many scandals with this government that those who have behaved properly are overshadowed by the significant number who have not.

I completely agree, very well put.

undines

What I expect GSM is to see less overall poverty, an absence of threats to those on benefit (most of whom are genuine, and on the bread line anyway) and a sense that hospitals, roads, schools etc. are improving, instead of the opposite. Any government can claim to have got something right. However, I'm not even sure about the points you mention - triple lock on something that's pretty inadequate anyway, a grossly mismanaged pandemic in which a lot of people profited through dishonest dealings, and a furlough scheme that may have just delayed joblessness. I'm not well-informed about the furlough scheme (I did not qualify) but that aside, how anyone can claim that this government has been anywhere near acceptable truly puzzles me!

The furlough scheme saved many jobs and businesses, as I have already said.

The ‘cost of living crisis’ is the result of several factors including increased energy prices and lack of availability of products due to the war in Ukraine. The government has helped people with energy costs and with the cost of living generally. The government’s support for Ukraine has also been extremely costly and will continue to be so.

People on benefits who can work should work. I have no problem with ‘threats’ in that regard. Should they, if able to work, stay at home whilst taxpayers fund their benefits? No.

Quite what people expect from the current government after the financial crisis, the pandemic, the disastrous Liz Truss (who was voted in by Party members including at least one member of GN) and the war in Ukraine I really don’t know. Nobody has the slightest idea how Labour would have coped with the pandemic but Starmer wasn’t called ‘Captain Hindsight’ for no reason. It’s so much easier to criticise than to be in charge and have to act - as I have no doubt we will soon see if Labour win the GE. Remember that Starmer’s ‘plan’ talks of tough spending decisions in order to grow the economy - exactly what the Conservatives have been doing but that is criticised as ‘austerity’. The economy is growing and inflation is down to 3.2%. If there is a honeymoon period it will be very short lived.

We don't really have a lot of choice have we. Neither party appeals to me but I will vote and be told by many that I have wasted my vote. After many years of not voting at all and deciding in 2015 that I should I'm so tempting to not but my grandchildren tell me I should even though one of the six is not yet old enough and 2 of the remaining 4 don't bother either.

MaizieD

Trurider1

REALLY, People ar egoing to vote for a party owned by the Communits and full of Muslims?

What planet are you living on, Trurider?🤣🤣

The one where the pigs are flying high tonight I suspect.

Germanshepherdsmum

‘It’s all about money’. A statement totally without foundation, but we mustn’t ask how you dreamed it up.

You can but not in a rude manner. We aren't in a courtroom.

There are some very interesting discussions on Mumsnet. One in particular about decline in educational achievements. People seem to be able to sound off, share their experiences and so on with out being jumped on.

germanshepherdsmum So, it's OK for you to make all sorts of inflammatory remarks but you characterise those questioning or disagreeing with your statements as merely seeking to provoke a fight.

What I expect GSM is to see less overall poverty, an absence of threats to those on benefit (most of whom are genuine, and on the bread line anyway) and a sense that hospitals, roads, schools etc. are improving, instead of the opposite. Any government can claim to have got something right. However, I'm not even sure about the points you mention - triple lock on something that's pretty inadequate anyway, a grossly mismanaged pandemic in which a lot of people profited through dishonest dealings, and a furlough scheme that may have just delayed joblessness. I'm not well-informed about the furlough scheme (I did not qualify) but that aside, how anyone can claim that this government has been anywhere near acceptable truly puzzles me!

How easy it is to be wise after the event. The track and trace system might ultimately have been a failure, but would it have been better to do nothing in the face of a totally unknown and deadly virus?

Cossy It is true that the furlough scheme was one of the better decisions made by the government. However, I believe it was a choice born of necessity rather than benevolence. Given that many individuals could not conduct their businesses or attend their place of work during lockdown, what else could have been done? Had no support been offered, many businesses would have closed, many people would have lost their jobs and the economy would have gone into complete freefall, with truly disastrous consequences.

But there is now abundant information available that evidences the massive amount of fraud which took place with regard to the furlough scheme, and the procurement of PEP. Also, the track and trace system, which is on record as costing at least £27 billion, was ill thought out and subsequently proved to be ineffective.

I agree that there are certainly MPs of all political colours who take their positions seriously and act with integrity and respect for the people they represent. However, there have been so many scandals with this government that those who have behaved properly are overshadowed by the significant number who have not.

Some questions are asked purely in order to start an argument. There are just a few who do it quite deliberately. Making a statement is just that - it is not asking a question with the sole intention of provoking a fight.

Trurider1

REALLY, People ar egoing to vote for a party owned by the Communits and full of Muslims?

What planet are you living on, Trurider?🤣🤣

Primrose53

Germanshepherdsmum

I will, as usual, vote Conservative.

So the covid vaccinations, the furlough payments which saved jobs and businesses the energy and cost of living payments, and the retention of the triple lock to name just a few recent government initiatives, didn’t ‘bring anything good into the lives of ordinary people’ undines? What exactly do you expect?

Furlough literally kept millions going and small businesses were very well looked after. I believe the Conservatives looked after its people better than most other countries.

I know a young couple who got the cost of living payments too and they were a real lifeline.

I don't think a government of any colour would have abandoned its citizens after imposing a lockdown. I do understand that the chancellor of the day wasn't very keen on the idea... Of course, a few million self employed people were abandoned because they didn't fit the criteria..
Likewise the vaccine rollout was not unique to the UK.

But, yes, the government did its duty by us.

We'll not mention VIP lanes and large amounts of money disappearing into the hands of tory mates...

REALLY, People ar egoing to vote for a party owned by the Communits and full of Muslims?

germanshepherdsmum You have made all sorts of provocative remarks - "what a lot of bullshit", "people should "give their heads a wobble", suggesting a poster is "not up to speed re the economy" , etc, etc., and have made statements that surely require clarification, such as our economy is not unstable. I think many people would take issue with that. Yet, if they ask questions you say such questions are purely to "goad".

Germanshepherdsmum

I will, as usual, vote Conservative.

So the covid vaccinations, the furlough payments which saved jobs and businesses the energy and cost of living payments, and the retention of the triple lock to name just a few recent government initiatives, didn’t ‘bring anything good into the lives of ordinary people’ undines? What exactly do you expect?

I agree GSM those things did benefit many many ordinary people and without it many would have suffered.

Sadly though there are also a number of awful things too, austerity did absolutely nothing but make the same normal people poorer, especially public sector workers, Lettuce Truss and her buddies ruined the mortgage/housing market, May wasted millions £££ on the DUPS, Johnson allowed many many people in care homes to needlessly die and didn’t take Covid seriously til he got it himself, PPP was an absolute travesty, the leadership squabbles were unnerving, Partygate was insulting to so many.

I do think that there are good, hard working, caring MPs on all sides of the house, but they keep their heads down and don’t “show off” in the public eye. I’m in the late David Amess’ constituency, I didn’t vote for him, but aside from allowing his personal faith to affect some of his voting decisions, (abortion being one), he was a hard working, decent, family minded man who made himself available to all, he fought for many causes, especially around animals, he attended lots of local functions and he was visible.

We need more like him across all parties.

Germanshepherdsmum

I will, as usual, vote Conservative.

So the covid vaccinations, the furlough payments which saved jobs and businesses the energy and cost of living payments, and the retention of the triple lock to name just a few recent government initiatives, didn’t ‘bring anything good into the lives of ordinary people’ undines? What exactly do you expect?

Furlough literally kept millions going and small businesses were very well looked after. I believe the Conservatives looked after its people better than most other countries.

I know a young couple who got the cost of living payments too and they were a real lifeline.

Eloethan

I'm not now a massive fan of Labour - unlike many people on this thread, I think it has gone much too far to the right. However, I really want to see the end of this corrupt, inept, dishonest government, which has, in my opinion, brought this country to its knees. For all those decrying Rayner and the Labour Party in general, what exactly has this present government achieved over 14 years, apart from massive increases in child poverty, the near collapse of the NHS, increased crime and bulging prison populations, the halving of bus routes, etc, etc, etc?

For that reason, I will most likely be voting Labour in order to get the Conservatives out.

I can only agree that the current Labour Party is far more centralist than left wing.

However, I will be voting for them as I don’t think I’d could stomach another Tory cabinet like this one.

By the way, I agree that both parties' position re Gaza is absolutely disgusting.

I'm not now a massive fan of Labour - unlike many people on this thread, I think it has gone much too far to the right. However, I really want to see the end of this corrupt, inept, dishonest government, which has, in my opinion, brought this country to its knees. For all those decrying Rayner and the Labour Party in general, what exactly has this present government achieved over 14 years, apart from massive increases in child poverty, the near collapse of the NHS, increased crime and bulging prison populations, the halving of bus routes, etc, etc, etc?

For that reason, I will most likely be voting Labour in order to get the Conservatives out.