General Election to be called today?

You rural posters may be comfy in your affluent local areas with all those fantastic facilities , but you can’t pretend it is the same across the board. I live in an inner London borough where no go estates are a few miles from £multi million gated communities with several public schools, leafy streets and swish independent shops. Elsewhere it’s a bookies, a couple of charity shops and a few fly blown mini supermarkets. Crime is endemic. The inequality has become greater in the last 14 years. Just because some areas have great facilities is not an indication that this country is “on the up” for the majority. Food prices have gone up 25-50%, energy prices 100%, interest rates up all in the last 2 years. Many people are struggling.

Jaywick in Essex is among the most deprived areas in the UK. When more money was available, hubs were set up in this area, including work coaches and family workers, to try and help move this community forward.

Germanshepherdsmum

Not all unskilled, poorly educated and unemployed people are capable of being retrained or educated Cossy. Many become dependent on alcohol and/or drugs and have become used to life on benefits.

Of course not everyone out of work is unskilled or ill educated, but those who are skilled and reasonably well educated are far more likely to get themselves back into work.

The answer to this is to fund more rehab services, especially residential ones. As part of DWP Social Justice role in outreach I spent a full day each week, split between two rehab centres, working alongside the rehab workers, which included prison leavers support workers. These services were cut in 2019 and my colleague and I sent back to work 100% in a jobcentre, having 10 minutes appointments with claimants. Nothing can be achieved with 10 minute appointments with long term unemployed people, by the time you’ve said good morning and checked their ID and job searches it was time to see the next person.

Just like I know nothing about your line of work unless you’ve worked win this area all you know is what the media choose to portray or possibly what you might personally with an unemployed person, much of which is simply not a true representation of reality. I spent four years in outreach, meeting in claimants homes if necessary, I cannot begin to tell you the chaotic lives and tragic backstories some of these people have,

There are two towns some way along the coast from me in Norfolk and Suffolk where groups of unemployed people sit around drinking and there is a lot of crime. Now how are you going to get people like that into work

I would start by asking why they are ‘sitting around drinking’. Perhaps it’s because they have lost all hope and, believe me, alcohol helps to take away the pain of that. So, we start with empathy rather than demonisation. Then we (as in society) treat them with respect; provide training; provide adult education; provide opportunities for them to feel like equal members of society. In other words … give them hope. Who knows, it might be like a magic wand! Yes, it won’t work for everyone (nothing ever does) but, I would argue, it will work for many.

Cossy

Jaywick in Essex is among the most deprived areas in the UK. When more money was available, hubs were set up in this area, including work coaches and family workers, to try and help move this community forward.

It is, and has been for years.

They have voted Tory for quite a few years though. First of all Douglas Carswell, then Giles Watling.

I’m not sure why.

Germanshepherdsmum

There are two towns some way along the coast from me in Norfolk and Suffolk where groups of unemployed people sit around drinking and there is a lot of crime. Now how are you going to get people like that into work?

Have places where people can follow their interests without drink, gyms to use up excess energy without being aggressive to other people, and free classes to raise skill levels and feel better about themselves, encourage businesses and industries which offer better pay than "the dole" and come down hard on the crime - with no defences allowed that being unemployed is an excuse for stealing from others or attacking passing strangers who look at them sideways.

Just don't expect a magic wand to overnight transform those who have got used to being useless into busy ants. It took decades to create that atmosphere, it could take decades to change it, but you gotta start somewhere.

Crossed posts, LizzieDrip The "two worlds" approach is that these are a different breed so no-one can do anything for them - the truth is that we are all the same breed, but our paths diverted somewhere, maybe generations ago. The paths need to reconverge.

Perhaps, Lizzie, unlike me you haven’t heard some of these people saying that people who work are mugs. Why bother to get up and go to a humdrum job (because you can’t do anything else) if you can pass the day with your mates drinking, being a thorough nuisance, surviving on benefits and (as happens a lot) drugs and shoplifting? If Cossy believes these people deserve empathy and respect and can be rehabilitated so as to be acceptable to an employer, I wish her luck. It’s people such as these who drag areas down and Jaywick has shown that throwing resources at the problem doesn’t improve the situation because of the people living there.

A major problem also seems to be around drugs, and the crimes attached to that.

Until we have more support services etc, that won’t change.

Germanshepherdsmum

Perhaps, Lizzie, unlike me you haven’t heard some of these people saying that people who work are mugs. Why bother to get up and go to a humdrum job (because you can’t do anything else) if you can pass the day with your mates drinking, being a thorough nuisance, surviving on benefits and (as happens a lot) drugs and shoplifting? If Cossy believes these people deserve empathy and respect and can be rehabilitated so as to be acceptable to an employer, I wish her luck. It’s people such as these who drag areas down and Jaywick has shown that throwing resources at the problem doesn’t improve the situation because of the people living there.

As it happens, GSM I do believe many of these people can be turned around, given time, effort and resources. I’ve personally worked with addicts, both alcohol and heroin, no hope kids, care leavers and single parents. All had backstories, many had “attitudes”, many felt written off third class citizens with no hope, confidence or aspirations. With education, perseverance, understanding and time it is possible, I’ve seen it, to turn people’s lives around and make a massive difference. I’m proud of those I worked with and finally got into employment after the many negatives in their lives had been addressed and resolved. Not a quick fix by any means.

Awful just to write off entire sections of society, imo.

It’s so easy to “judge” because they’re in a group, drinking and being a pain.

I know many in work who also do this! Particularly the groups of young men with whom I worked in the City in Insurance. The state of them on the train on a Friday night defied belief!

How did they dare to say that where you could hear you, GSM ? I bet your reply scorched their eardrums so badly they went straight to the Labour Exchange to sign up and escape.

Btw what Jaywick shows is that if you lump lots of deprived, uneducated, feckless people together in one area you create ghettos. Jaywick could be a nice place, as could many other areas. It’ll never happen overnight nor does tarring them all with the same brush help - poverty doesn’t equal bad person!

"where you could hear them ", of course - posted without rereading, in my haste!

In any area there are those “unemployable” because of addiction, mental health or physical disabilities they cannot hold a job down. Far more should be done to prevent their problems becoming established because once they get to that stage it’s very difficult to return to normal.

Prevention is better than cure!

Katie590

In any area there are those “unemployable” because of addiction, mental health or physical disabilities they cannot hold a job down. Far more should be done to prevent their problems becoming established because once they get to that stage it’s very difficult to return to normal.

It is, and you’re so right, early intervention is absolutely crucial, as is prevention, this all needs resource and funding though.

The people in Jaywick haven’t been lumped together. Many have lived there all their lives and they feed off one another’s habits. The people in Jaywick have created their own ghetto and throwing money at it hasn’t helped because they are quite content to carry on as they are. I lived in Essex for many years and I certainly don’t believe that Jaywick could be a nice place unless it was bulldozed and its inhabitants removed. They have made it what it is.

The "two worlds" approach is that these are a different breed so no-one can do anything for them - the truth is that we are all the same breed, but our paths diverted somewhere, maybe generations ago. The paths need to reconverge

Elegran 👏👏👏👏👏👏

GSM … and you accused me of a lack of compassion because I don’t feel sorry for private school kids!

Where would you remove them to, GSM ? A gas chamber?

Germanshepherdsmum

The people in Jaywick haven’t been lumped together. Many have lived there all their lives and they feed off one another’s habits. The people in Jaywick have created their own ghetto and throwing money at it hasn’t helped because they are quite content to carry on as they are. I lived in Essex for many years and I certainly don’t believe that Jaywick could be a nice place unless it was bulldozed and its inhabitants removed. They have made it what it is.

With respect, let’s just agree to disagree GSM, in my view, virtually no one deserves to be written off. Yes, I completely agree, it’s a generational thing, no aspiration because no encouragement to do so via parents and grandparents and peers. Even in Jaywick there are still some decent people, whether you’re prepared to accept that, they are human beings! Each to their own GSM, I believe everyone can be a useful member of society.

A very close and long standing friend lived in Clacton for many years because her GP husband was senior partner in a surgery there, so I know this area very well. We own a holiday lodge in St Osyth, which is still reasonably unspoilt.

Everyone who wants it, or requires it, deserves a second or even third chance at improving their lives, not everyone is as resilient, well educated, independent and ambitious as you clearly were, some need far more help. You’re a shining example of what can be achieved, some people need much more help to get than others.

Germanshepherdsmum

Few retailers will be interested in areas where there are low wages and high unemployment, and I really don’t know what you can do about unskilled and poorly educated people who are out of work.

The district I live in has the highest average educational achievement in Essex and almost non-existent unemployment. My town isn't rural - we're just forgotten about because it's a big county and other areas are more densely populated and attract more funding. What people forget is that there are pockets of real poverty almost everywhere, including here.

I’m not a shining example of what can be achieved! I know you mean that as a compliment but it’s not. I went to a state grammar school and got good O and A levels. I had a place at Cambridge but didn’t take it up because I (very stupidly) was engaged at 17 and married at 19. Yes, I studied on my own for Law Society exams in which I obtained a number of distinctions, then with much difficulty, as a married (they have babies don’t they?) woman without a degree, I got articles in order to qualify as a solicitor. What I achieved was down to a good education and a solid work ethic. Those who are pretty much uneducated and wouldn’t know a work ethic if they fell over it are not, I think likely to do what I did.

I certainly don’t agree that everyone can be a useful member of society. Too many are too lazy to work at school - that shouldn’t have to be dependent on parental encouragement and a quiet place to study - and can’t be bothered to work. One of the best graduates my husband employed was a black lad from a large, poor family, parents not interested in his education, shared a bedroom with younger brothers, but he worked hard and did well. A hard worker will succeed. They don’t need to be clever, they need to be prepared to work.

Just waiting to find out which of the current ministers are going to stand down. It is expected that there are a number of them will go.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m not a shining example of what can be achieved! I know you mean that as a compliment but it’s not. I went to a state grammar school and got good O and A levels. I had a place at Cambridge but didn’t take it up because I (very stupidly) was engaged at 17 and married at 19. Yes, I studied on my own for Law Society exams in which I obtained a number of distinctions, then with much difficulty, as a married (they have babies don’t they?) woman without a degree, I got articles in order to qualify as a solicitor. What I achieved was down to a good education and a solid work ethic. Those who are pretty much uneducated and wouldn’t know a work ethic if they fell over it are not, I think likely to do what I did.

I certainly don’t agree that everyone can be a useful member of society. Too many are too lazy to work at school - that shouldn’t have to be dependent on parental encouragement and a quiet place to study - and can’t be bothered to work. One of the best graduates my husband employed was a black lad from a large, poor family, parents not interested in his education, shared a bedroom with younger brothers, but he worked hard and did well. A hard worker will succeed. They don’t need to be clever, they need to be prepared to work.

Exactly! And if somebody from Jaywick (or any other deprived area) wants to achieve, he or she has a steeper hill to climb. I wonder how many have found there were just too many barriers in the way, barriers which those with more supportive parents and cushier existences don't even know exist.