General Election to be called today?

I’m not interested in anything except what the leaders say. Listening to the opinions of political commentators is tedious and a complete waste of time.

I am already bored with the news coverage of the upcoming GE and it’s not even 24 hours since the announcement, think I will extend my holiday.

I simply refuse to choose between them. I am a centre-right voter. Neither of the mainstream parties represent my views or deserve my vote. Would you like big state with high tax Madam? Or would you prefer high tax with big state?

If Reform field a candidate I’ll vote for him/her. Otherwise just spoil my ballot paper.

You can’t expect schools to solve all the problems of poor parenting. Breaking the cycle requires much more resources than are currently available and intervention needs to be done in the early years. It’s no coincidence that the majority of prisoners come from the care system, neglectful and abusive families, with low school attainment.

The school would arrange work experience and can give careers advice. They do have local schools you know, rated ‘good’.

It is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Give a dog a bad name and you might as well just shoot him as a puppy. Give an address in somewhere like Jayswick and it is assumed that you will be all the things that GSM described, so someone else gets the openings for more education, a chance to get work experience that counts, and finally a job.

Germanshepherdsmum

The people in Jaywick haven’t been lumped together. Many have lived there all their lives and they feed off one another’s habits. The people in Jaywick have created their own ghetto and throwing money at it hasn’t helped because they are quite content to carry on as they are. I lived in Essex for many years and I certainly don’t believe that Jaywick could be a nice place unless it was bulldozed and its inhabitants removed. They have made it what it is.

this is not strictly true. Many London boroughs use Jaywick, amongst other places, to 'dump' their 'problem families', thus perpetuating the downward spiral of placing people in areas of poor housing, failing schools, no or poorly paid employment.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m not a shining example of what can be achieved! I know you mean that as a compliment but it’s not. I went to a state grammar school and got good O and A levels. I had a place at Cambridge but didn’t take it up because I (very stupidly) was engaged at 17 and married at 19. Yes, I studied on my own for Law Society exams in which I obtained a number of distinctions, then with much difficulty, as a married (they have babies don’t they?) woman without a degree, I got articles in order to qualify as a solicitor. What I achieved was down to a good education and a solid work ethic. Those who are pretty much uneducated and wouldn’t know a work ethic if they fell over it are not, I think likely to do what I did.

I certainly don’t agree that everyone can be a useful member of society. Too many are too lazy to work at school - that shouldn’t have to be dependent on parental encouragement and a quiet place to study - and can’t be bothered to work. One of the best graduates my husband employed was a black lad from a large, poor family, parents not interested in his education, shared a bedroom with younger brothers, but he worked hard and did well. A hard worker will succeed. They don’t need to be clever, they need to be prepared to work.

Again, GSM I have to slightly disagree, yes a good work ethic, honesty and a willingness to learn is paramount, but sadly hard work doesn’t always equal success.

Also, you are correct it was mean as a compliment, and I’m sorry you don’t see it as such!

Believe me I know about barriers. What I don’t accept from anyone is an excuse for not working hard. If I can sit and read law books on my own in order to pass exams, whilst working full time, anyone with the requisite amount of intelligence who is prepared to make the sacrifice can do the same - but I’m not asking them all to become lawyers, just to work hard to earn a living and not be reliant on benefits.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m not a shining example of what can be achieved! I know you mean that as a compliment but it’s not. I went to a state grammar school and got good O and A levels. I had a place at Cambridge but didn’t take it up because I (very stupidly) was engaged at 17 and married at 19. Yes, I studied on my own for Law Society exams in which I obtained a number of distinctions, then with much difficulty, as a married (they have babies don’t they?) woman without a degree, I got articles in order to qualify as a solicitor. What I achieved was down to a good education and a solid work ethic. Those who are pretty much uneducated and wouldn’t know a work ethic if they fell over it are not, I think likely to do what I did.

I certainly don’t agree that everyone can be a useful member of society. Too many are too lazy to work at school - that shouldn’t have to be dependent on parental encouragement and a quiet place to study - and can’t be bothered to work. One of the best graduates my husband employed was a black lad from a large, poor family, parents not interested in his education, shared a bedroom with younger brothers, but he worked hard and did well. A hard worker will succeed. They don’t need to be clever, they need to be prepared to work.

Exactly! And if somebody from Jaywick (or any other deprived area) wants to achieve, he or she has a steeper hill to climb. I wonder how many have found there were just too many barriers in the way, barriers which those with more supportive parents and cushier existences don't even know exist.

Just waiting to find out which of the current ministers are going to stand down. It is expected that there are a number of them will go.

I’m not a shining example of what can be achieved! I know you mean that as a compliment but it’s not. I went to a state grammar school and got good O and A levels. I had a place at Cambridge but didn’t take it up because I (very stupidly) was engaged at 17 and married at 19. Yes, I studied on my own for Law Society exams in which I obtained a number of distinctions, then with much difficulty, as a married (they have babies don’t they?) woman without a degree, I got articles in order to qualify as a solicitor. What I achieved was down to a good education and a solid work ethic. Those who are pretty much uneducated and wouldn’t know a work ethic if they fell over it are not, I think likely to do what I did.

I certainly don’t agree that everyone can be a useful member of society. Too many are too lazy to work at school - that shouldn’t have to be dependent on parental encouragement and a quiet place to study - and can’t be bothered to work. One of the best graduates my husband employed was a black lad from a large, poor family, parents not interested in his education, shared a bedroom with younger brothers, but he worked hard and did well. A hard worker will succeed. They don’t need to be clever, they need to be prepared to work.

Germanshepherdsmum

Few retailers will be interested in areas where there are low wages and high unemployment, and I really don’t know what you can do about unskilled and poorly educated people who are out of work.

The district I live in has the highest average educational achievement in Essex and almost non-existent unemployment. My town isn't rural - we're just forgotten about because it's a big county and other areas are more densely populated and attract more funding. What people forget is that there are pockets of real poverty almost everywhere, including here.

Germanshepherdsmum

The people in Jaywick haven’t been lumped together. Many have lived there all their lives and they feed off one another’s habits. The people in Jaywick have created their own ghetto and throwing money at it hasn’t helped because they are quite content to carry on as they are. I lived in Essex for many years and I certainly don’t believe that Jaywick could be a nice place unless it was bulldozed and its inhabitants removed. They have made it what it is.

With respect, let’s just agree to disagree GSM, in my view, virtually no one deserves to be written off. Yes, I completely agree, it’s a generational thing, no aspiration because no encouragement to do so via parents and grandparents and peers. Even in Jaywick there are still some decent people, whether you’re prepared to accept that, they are human beings! Each to their own GSM, I believe everyone can be a useful member of society.

A very close and long standing friend lived in Clacton for many years because her GP husband was senior partner in a surgery there, so I know this area very well. We own a holiday lodge in St Osyth, which is still reasonably unspoilt.

Everyone who wants it, or requires it, deserves a second or even third chance at improving their lives, not everyone is as resilient, well educated, independent and ambitious as you clearly were, some need far more help. You’re a shining example of what can be achieved, some people need much more help to get than others.

Where would you remove them to, GSM ? A gas chamber?

GSM … and you accused me of a lack of compassion because I don’t feel sorry for private school kids!

The "two worlds" approach is that these are a different breed so no-one can do anything for them - the truth is that we are all the same breed, but our paths diverted somewhere, maybe generations ago. The paths need to reconverge

Elegran 👏👏👏👏👏👏

The people in Jaywick haven’t been lumped together. Many have lived there all their lives and they feed off one another’s habits. The people in Jaywick have created their own ghetto and throwing money at it hasn’t helped because they are quite content to carry on as they are. I lived in Essex for many years and I certainly don’t believe that Jaywick could be a nice place unless it was bulldozed and its inhabitants removed. They have made it what it is.

Katie590

In any area there are those “unemployable” because of addiction, mental health or physical disabilities they cannot hold a job down. Far more should be done to prevent their problems becoming established because once they get to that stage it’s very difficult to return to normal.

It is, and you’re so right, early intervention is absolutely crucial, as is prevention, this all needs resource and funding though.

Prevention is better than cure!

In any area there are those “unemployable” because of addiction, mental health or physical disabilities they cannot hold a job down. Far more should be done to prevent their problems becoming established because once they get to that stage it’s very difficult to return to normal.

"where you could hear them ", of course - posted without rereading, in my haste!

Btw what Jaywick shows is that if you lump lots of deprived, uneducated, feckless people together in one area you create ghettos. Jaywick could be a nice place, as could many other areas. It’ll never happen overnight nor does tarring them all with the same brush help - poverty doesn’t equal bad person!

How did they dare to say that where you could hear you, GSM ? I bet your reply scorched their eardrums so badly they went straight to the Labour Exchange to sign up and escape.

Germanshepherdsmum

Perhaps, Lizzie, unlike me you haven’t heard some of these people saying that people who work are mugs. Why bother to get up and go to a humdrum job (because you can’t do anything else) if you can pass the day with your mates drinking, being a thorough nuisance, surviving on benefits and (as happens a lot) drugs and shoplifting? If Cossy believes these people deserve empathy and respect and can be rehabilitated so as to be acceptable to an employer, I wish her luck. It’s people such as these who drag areas down and Jaywick has shown that throwing resources at the problem doesn’t improve the situation because of the people living there.

As it happens, GSM I do believe many of these people can be turned around, given time, effort and resources. I’ve personally worked with addicts, both alcohol and heroin, no hope kids, care leavers and single parents. All had backstories, many had “attitudes”, many felt written off third class citizens with no hope, confidence or aspirations. With education, perseverance, understanding and time it is possible, I’ve seen it, to turn people’s lives around and make a massive difference. I’m proud of those I worked with and finally got into employment after the many negatives in their lives had been addressed and resolved. Not a quick fix by any means.

Awful just to write off entire sections of society, imo.

It’s so easy to “judge” because they’re in a group, drinking and being a pain.

I know many in work who also do this! Particularly the groups of young men with whom I worked in the City in Insurance. The state of them on the train on a Friday night defied belief!