Follow the Polls

I see what you mean Casdon. So why, when I listen to the intelligent and courteous Ben Habib do I agree with what he says? His thoughts chime with mine.

Anyway, it’s all academic. Reform are not going to form a government. My vote is probably a protest vote only but I’m determined to make it.

Labour will win so what THEY promise about the NHS is more pertinent.

Keep it up! And tell all your Conservative voting friends to do the same!

Nicenanny3

Urmstongran

Actually I’m not. usual Tory voter growstuff. I’ve only ever voted for them once when I lent them my vote.

I'm a usual Tory voter and I and my husband are voting for The Reform Party. From little acorns big oak trees grow 👍

Excellent! Another two votes to split the Labour opposition.

Go through it with a fine tooth comb Urmstongran. It’s got more holes in it than a sieve. I could unpick it line by line, brut here are some of the glaring issues.
What happens if staff aren’t attracted back by the promise to pay no basic rate tax for three years. How much would this cost?
No mention of how ‘waiting lists’ for GPs will be reduced that isn’t already in place.
Emphasis on non NHS solutions - abroad, private care, and as I suspected and most worryingly, on voluntary organisations.

No need for nasty personal insults surely? Why do posters DO this - stir the pot when a perfectly agreeable discussion is taking place?

Oh be careful, Casdon - you'll be accused of treating Reform voters as stupid careless! Just as many of us were accused of belittling Brexit voters when we got anywhere within light years of saying "That's just what we said would happen" when it did.

I haven’t seen anything re Reform & the NHS that puts the wind up me Casdon.

www.reformparty.uk/nhs

Dickens

Wyllow3

I disagree proudly with Reform policies on privatising health, I want to keep the NHS firmly in public hands. I dont trust Reform to look afterme and mine unless we have considerably more resources than we do.

Reforms NHS policies if one checks (Google Reform NHS)

come very close to the US model of as many people as possible with private insurance, or public money spent for profit-making health organisations

and we know from stories from the US just how ghastly dealing with private insurance companies who never pay out or who hake treatment mid cancer care to want to stand as far away as possible from that.

Reforms NHS policies if one checks (Google Reform NHS)

I just did.

Of course, there is some 'level-headed' thinking, and phrases we've heard before from previous governments - like this...

There is a broad consensus on what needs to change – less hospital care, more community and self-care

Fine words. As they were when care-in-the-community was introduced.

It's a good idea, in principle. How it would work under Reform is another matter. Public spending will not be high on their priority list.

I think what Reform are saying on health Dickens is that ‘we will expect your family, friends and neighbours to look after you at home if you’re ill, and to stay well you should look after yourself, because if you don’t, we won’t’. (I think there’s a subtle difference between care in the community and community care in their minds). I’m not sure everybody who is going to vote Reform has understood that is the underlying message.

Urmstongran

Actually I’m not. usual Tory voter growstuff. I’ve only ever voted for them once when I lent them my vote.

I'm a usual Tory voter and I and my husband are voting for The Reform Party. From little acorns big oak trees grow 👍

It could just as well be stuffed with unicorns and rainbows

I think they were all used up by the Brexit campaigns…

“To be honest I don’t think many people will read or care what’s in the Labour manifesto. It could just as well be stuffed with unicorns and rainbows. The main consensus this GE is just to give the Tories a good kicking. Fair enough.”

Actually I care and I hope they can pull it off. I don’t think giving the Tories “a good kicking” is acceptable. I’m just fed up with their version of running a country, with their lies, and poor economic management.

Wyllow3

I disagree proudly with Reform policies on privatising health, I want to keep the NHS firmly in public hands. I dont trust Reform to look afterme and mine unless we have considerably more resources than we do.

Reforms NHS policies if one checks (Google Reform NHS)

come very close to the US model of as many people as possible with private insurance, or public money spent for profit-making health organisations

and we know from stories from the US just how ghastly dealing with private insurance companies who never pay out or who hake treatment mid cancer care to want to stand as far away as possible from that.

Reforms NHS policies if one checks (Google Reform NHS)

I just did.

Of course, there is some 'level-headed' thinking, and phrases we've heard before from previous governments - like this...

There is a broad consensus on what needs to change – less hospital care, more community and self-care

Fine words. As they were when care-in-the-community was introduced.

It's a good idea, in principle. How it would work under Reform is another matter. Public spending will not be high on their priority list.

Not shameful at all Freya5.
What IS shameful is the complete disregard for most of us the Tory party have cavalierly displayed in the last 14 years.
They deserve to be hounded out of office.

Urmstongran

Yes indeed Liam Halligan is very intelligent and explains economics very well to the likes of me. I really enjoy it when he is being interviewed and sit up and take notice.

Regards Reform, we will just have to agree to disagree. I’ve made my mind up as I’m sure you have.

To be honest I don’t think many people will read or care what’s in the Labour manifesto. It could just as well be stuffed with unicorns and rainbows. The main consensus this GE is just to give the Tories a good kicking. Fair enough.

What a hateful turn of phrase, "just to give the Tories a good kicking. " Shameful.

Actually I’m not. usual Tory voter growstuff. I’ve only ever voted for them once when I lent them my vote.

I know. I’ve heard that comment many times over the past month growstuff. Ah well. I want to vote Reform so, so be it. But you never know … if there’s a groundswell of support for Reform then a few MPs in the HoC would be wonderful. I think about 4 have been mooted as quite possible. And at least the Speaker would have to let them speak in Parliament. Be interesting to give them a platform.

Urmstongran I'm absolutely delighted that a usual Conservative voter is going to vote for Reform - I expect the Labour Party is too. It should ensure that opposition to Labour is split.

halt not hake

I disagree proudly with Reform policies on privatising health, I want to keep the NHS firmly in public hands. I dont trust Reform to look afterme and mine unless we have considerably more resources than we do.

Reforms NHS policies if one checks (Google Reform NHS)

come very close to the US model of as many people as possible with private insurance, or public money spent for profit-making health organisations

and we know from stories from the US just how ghastly dealing with private insurance companies who never pay out or who hake treatment mid cancer care to want to stand as far away as possible from that.

Yes indeed Liam Halligan is very intelligent and explains economics very well to the likes of me. I really enjoy it when he is being interviewed and sit up and take notice.

Regards Reform, we will just have to agree to disagree. I’ve made my mind up as I’m sure you have.

To be honest I don’t think many people will read or care what’s in the Labour manifesto. It could just as well be stuffed with unicorns and rainbows. The main consensus this GE is just to give the Tories a good kicking. Fair enough.

Indeed Growstuff its just come up other thread ie taxing small amount on SP. We cant afford to give less for our essential public services.

So I would save a few pounds from not paying income tax on my pensions, but at what cost? Not impressed.

PS. Liam Halligan is a neighbour, whom I've met many times. He's certainly intelligent, but whether he's a great economist depends on your values.

Urmstongran

You could look it up growstuff but just one example - Reform supports raising the threshold at which people start paying income tax from £12,500 to £20,000, and exempting the smallest businesses from corporation tax. And pensioners who have been caught up in what Liam Halligan (great economist) calls ‘fiscal drag’.

I could look it up (in fact, I have) but I can't see any way that Reform would benefit the country. I was interested in your opinion, which I appreciate isn't the same as mine.

Pretty damning.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/01/labour-cant-hide-from-its-own-complicity-covid-lockdown/