Anybody else who doesn't know who to vote for?

Wyllow3
You can’t say something isn’t working when it hasn’t happened yet.
Of course Sunak will link the Rwanda flights with the election as if Starmer becomes PM he will scrap it.
That’s why the election has been called so early.

For the first time I’m uncertain and need to do some proper reading of proposed policies. LD locally have plunged our council into considerable debt with unviable housing plans decimating the countryside, so they don’t even get a look in.

LovesBach

AGAA4

I am left with the choice of which of the parties will do the least harm.

You and many others I suspect, myself included.

This, in a nutshell.

I see no real evidence of Rwanda "working". All that money and time spent. The cost of sending 1 person is huge.

And Sunak has dodged the issue further by saying no one will be sent to Rwanda until the election, which is totally disingenuous. Labour have voted not against curbing immigration but the Rwanda plan specifically.

Immigration proper is to recruit people who are suitable and skills we need - ie the points system.
The migrants who turn up - we need to process far more quickly.

But this isn't just an "our little island" problem. Its European wide and we aren't working hard enough with European partners to tackle people smuggling.

Nicenanny3

09:49Cossy

You can't trust Labour or Starmer hence 'Better the Devil you Know'.

Meaningless statement and you don’t appear to be able to explain “why” or evidence your reasons?

09:49Cossy

You can't trust Labour or Starmer hence 'Better the Devil you Know'.

Freshair

I want to vote Tory because Labour will get us into a greater mess than we are now. The tax hikes are going to be crippling under labour. I trust them less than the status quo.

Evidence?

btw, of course the LP have an immigration policy! Unproven of course and will it work? That’s only something that can be answered if, and when, they get the opportunity to implement it.

To simply suggest there is no policy, or it, or they cannot be “trusted” is just a wild, unproven statement. At least explain the “why” behind your comments and provide some kind of evidence.

GSM has very strong views about the LP immigration policy and she’s explained “why” and given some (loose) evidence about how she’s reached this conclusion. I don’t necessarily agree with her, but at least she’s providing reasons for her views.

I want to vote Tory because Labour will get us into a greater mess than we are now. The tax hikes are going to be crippling under labour. I trust them less than the status quo.

Not existentially 😡. Exponentially

Nicenanny3

Labour will open the flood gates they have no immigration policy Yvette Cooper is useless she says she will do this and that but it's all been said and tried before at least Sunak is trying to Stop the Boats with the Rwanda plan which is working because migrants/illegals are going to Ireland because of the threat of being sent there (it's a deterrent). Labour have voted 100 times against plans to stop/curb immigration, The House of Lords mainly Labour and Lib Dem peers trying to stop this legislation at every turn. Now we have the so called human rights lawyers trying to stop every deportation and Starmer saying they will cancel the Rwanda plan, how stupid would that be if it's shown to be working perhaps once a human rights lawyer always a human rights lawyer, leopards don't change their spots do they.

This part of Labours most recent policy re immigration.

“ Labour's immigration policy will reduce the reliance on overseas workers, address home-grown skills shortages and ensure that hard work is rewarded with proper wages and conditions. Labour supports a points-based immigration system that works for workers and businesses.10 May 2024”

Does that really seem like “opening the floodgates”

Re flood gates and immigration.

In 2010 annual net migration - approx. 252000. This composed many EU workers filling care, hospitality, NHS, pickers and building posts.

After the Tories took over they promised to reduce immigration to the 10s of thousands.

Result? Immigration has risen existentially ever since.

Ironically it rose enormously after we took back control of our borders post Brexit!

It now stands at 672000, which of course does not include EU migrant workers.

So there is zero evidence that the Tories will take control of immigration - in fact evidence shows that the reverse is true.

Nicenanny3

Well besides not trusting Starmer I don't trust Angela Rayner she's not fit in my opinion to hold the position of Deputy Leader and she is being interviewed under caution by the police.

As have many Tory MPs including the ex PM.

It’s the “why” I’m interested in?

So many people saying they "don't trust Labour". Can you explain why? What did you trust the Tories to do that they have delivered on? What would you trust the Tories to do in future that will benefit the average voter ?

Well besides not trusting Starmer I don't trust Angela Rayner she's not fit in my opinion to hold the position of Deputy Leader and she is being interviewed under caution by the police.

AGAA4

I am left with the choice of which of the parties will do the least harm.

You and many others I suspect, myself included.

I see a lot of posters here stating they don’t wish to vote Conservative, for a variety of reasons, but that they “don’t trust Keir Starmer”.

My question is why?

Also, of course he’s unproven, he’s only ever been in opposition, of course he wants to be in power, as does any party leader. I don’t buy that he u-turns any more than any other leader and we are not voting for Starmer, or any other party leader, we are voting to put a party into power whose policies/beliefs/ethos most closely align with our own.

Every political party is about so much more than their leaders, who are, as we all know only too well from the last 14 years, very easily replaced.

Labour will open the flood gates they have no immigration policy Yvette Cooper is useless she says she will do this and that but it's all been said and tried before at least Sunak is trying to Stop the Boats with the Rwanda plan which is working because migrants/illegals are going to Ireland because of the threat of being sent there (it's a deterrent). Labour have voted 100 times against plans to stop/curb immigration, The House of Lords mainly Labour and Lib Dem peers trying to stop this legislation at every turn. Now we have the so called human rights lawyers trying to stop every deportation and Starmer saying they will cancel the Rwanda plan, how stupid would that be if it's shown to be working perhaps once a human rights lawyer always a human rights lawyer, leopards don't change their spots do they.

Me neither, but could we have a vote of no confidence in the health minister?

Casdon

This would be electoral madness, surely?
news.sky.com/story/tory-minister-asked-whether-she-could-submit-no-confidence-letter-after-pm-announced-election-sky-news-understands-13142247
I really don’t see any logic in ousting the leader of the party in the middle of an election campaign.

Is this even allowed? I agree total madness and just a little pointless.

This would be electoral madness, surely?
news.sky.com/story/tory-minister-asked-whether-she-could-submit-no-confidence-letter-after-pm-announced-election-sky-news-understands-13142247
I really don’t see any logic in ousting the leader of the party in the middle of an election campaign.

Pittcity

*Varian*, I would vote Lib Dem but our local candidate doesn't impress me. The first past the post system doesn't favour the Lib Dems or any other minority party.
I can see a lot of people voting Reform and a large chunk won't vote at all.

It's time to change the whole electoral system.

It's time to change the whole electoral system
Yes but that isn’t going to happen when a party is certain to win, or sure they’ll stay in.

Varian, I would vote Lib Dem but our local candidate doesn't impress me. The first past the post system doesn't favour the Lib Dems or any other minority party.
I can see a lot of people voting Reform and a large chunk won't vote at all.

It's time to change the whole electoral system.

Cossy
Surely it’s about their policies and manifesto and their record thus far?

It surely is! I can think of plenty of reasons why to not vote Conservative.
But we have no idea how Labour would have handled Covid, or whether they’d have chanced a Brexit referendum.
We do know, from past experience, that any failure to meet manifesto promises will be blamed on the previous government, despite the fact that the promises are made in full knowledge of what awaits them.
I am very concerned, as others are, with housing, the NHS and the impact of wars on our country’s economy, rising prices, the unwillingness to support females against the insidious actions of some males and the backlash against those who truthfully say you cannot change sex.
However, one of my biggest problems is Keir Starmer. I trust him even less than Rishi Sunak and he’s leading the only other party with a real chance of winning this election.

I am left with the choice of which of the parties will do the least harm.