Left, right, left, right!

Sunak thinks teenagers need to be kept out of trouble and National Service is the way to do it. What a pathetic view of young people, most of whom do not need keeping out of trouble. What we really have is a UK in trouble - economic and social - because of 14 years of Tory incompetence.

Yes, I notice that too.

It's ok for other people's families, but not for our little darlings.

MissAdventure

Yes, but it is for everyone.
No exceptions.

It's interesting how when this sinks in people often change their minds. Not unlike 'fewer young people should go to university', it's one of those things that a lot of people see as a great idea so long as it only applies to others.

If this is ever going to work (which it won't, as it will never get off the ground) it has to include everyone. How can some children be targeted and others not? Obviously that sort of unfairness happens all the time, so I'll rephrase that - how can an idea be sold as beneficial to the country and to a mass of young people if the middle classes are exempt?

There are far too many people who see themselves and their loved ones as exceptions to so many things, and that contributes to the divisions in society. Whether it's people taking time off work for stress and others picking up their work, students opting out of tricky assignments which others have to do, people working part-time and getting top-ups which give them the same take-home pay as full-time workers, means-testing locking those who have paid for pensions or have savings out of discounts available to those who haven't - it goes on and on, and of course the people on the 'wrong end' of this sort of thing are going to feel resentful.

Whether some of these things are set up to ensure that there are groups who can be looked down upon is a separate thread - resentment does take people's minds off government shenanigans - but letting people off national service because they are at university, or off in the Galapagos Islands on a gap year, or because their comfort zone is such that leaving their home town is bad for their mental health, or because their parents know how best to fill in the exemption forms to get them out of it is not going to end well. For once, Sunak seems to have got the point (or more likely he is fully aware that he won't ever need to see this through, and is passing the buck down the line to Starmer and co to sort out).

If someone had the sense to stop all the special pleading* and lay down a clear social contract that was fair to all, we might live in a happier society with no need for daft ideas like this one.

*for avoidance of doubt, I hope it goes without saying that this does not mean that I think there shouldn't be proper provision for those who are unable to do whatever it is - just that if someone chooses to opt out they shouldn't expect to be carried by others.

singingnutty

^'Just read the funding would come from the levelling up fund - talking about billions!'^

The idea of 'Levelling up' was always a complete farce. There was no intention of making it work. It can take it's place along with all those hospitals which were to be rebuilt, sorting out social care and making the NHS work properly again. The Labour Party will not be able to sort out our broken system very swiftly, but at least there might be the possibility of a light at the end of the tunnel.

Oh. You mean the promises made by Johnson, one of our great Tory Prime Ministers.

Sunak claims the NS will keep teenagers out of trouble. His assumption that they are likely to be in trouble is a slur on the vast majority of young people.

MissAdventure

Yes, but it is for everyone.
No exceptions.

And that is my problem with it. It won’t affect my GCs now anyway, but 3 of them are at Uni - in order to support this, they have all had to find part time jobs to prop up the finances.

They work weekends - and with studying, lectures etc they wouldn’t have time for all this.🤷‍♀️

I think people like Sunak need to understand that not all parents can afford to make it that their sons and daughters don’t need to work.🙄

Yes, but it is for everyone.
No exceptions.

Brilliant idea. Needs a bit more thought put into it as everyone has different skill sets. Should be for those who haven't got a job or further education to go to. Also, anyone getting a job while in their volunteer scheme should be released from it. Perhaps they could have groups working in the community on various projects. This would require people to lead and supervise, therefore creating jobs. It will give those youngsters who don't manage to get a job on leaving school an opportunity to gain some experience and confidence whilst looking for full-time jobs.

'Just read the funding would come from the levelling up fund - talking about billions!'

The idea of 'Levelling up' was always a complete farce. There was no intention of making it work. It can take it's place along with all those hospitals which were to be rebuilt, sorting out social care and making the NHS work properly again. The Labour Party will not be able to sort out our broken system very swiftly, but at least there might be the possibility of a light at the end of the tunnel.

I’m not irritated because I think it’ll never happen!
Firstly because we’re going to have a Labour government in a few weeks time.
Secondly because even in the inconceivable event of the Conservatives winning the election, they will never get this off the ground, it’ll be shelved.
It’s called electioneering. It’ll never happen.

DiamondLily

Germanshepherdsmum

There used, occasionally, to be a team of ‘young offenders’ cutting the grass in the churchyard where my grandparents are buried. They arrived in a van driven by a tough looking bloke who supervised them. I don’t know who employed him. Such community activities could be very useful. We can’t expect the arrangement, transport and supervision to be provided free of charge. The benefit should outweigh the cost.

Perhaps it depends. Around here, they could never find supervisors, there were insurance issues, there were endless arguments and people didn’t turn up to do it.🙄

Initially they were supervised by people employed by the Probation Service. A friend who’d been a governor at hmp Frankland supervised for a couple of years after retiring. It takes strong people to manage CS offenders.
It’s a source of real sadness to me that our Probation `service was wrecked by privatisation

As to Rishi’s scheme, I’ve already posted my response. Hugely expensive and demanding of good staff etc. I’m not opposed to the idea of some kind of community service amongst yiung people, it’s effective in many other European countries. I’m irritated by its announcement now, at the start of an election campaign - with no costing etc

It isn't just for some young folk, though.
It's for all of them.

Using the term National Service conjurs up the military Nat Service that ended in the 60s. I don't think, at least I hope, it doesn't mean quite the same. There was a system whereby more learning eg what an meant, being reliant on others and vice versa, maintaining personal standards, these are very basics I can recall. Lasted 1 year and if wlilling could sign up for Service. No guns were involved, it was mainly personal development which for some young folk would be good. Scandivavia, Germany have had such a National Service for years and we all know how we look up to Scandinavia!

Everyone.
Rich, poor, and inbtween.
Girls, boys, and non binary.
Working, not working, at university or not.

Milest0ne

I am glad that many of you have GRANDAUGHTERS taking part in DoE schemes . I get the impression that it is thought only boys will be involved in the new National service which is very biased.

No, they are talking about both sexes.

Germanshepherdsmum

There used, occasionally, to be a team of ‘young offenders’ cutting the grass in the churchyard where my grandparents are buried. They arrived in a van driven by a tough looking bloke who supervised them. I don’t know who employed him. Such community activities could be very useful. We can’t expect the arrangement, transport and supervision to be provided free of charge. The benefit should outweigh the cost.

Perhaps it depends. Around here, they could never find supervisors, there were insurance issues, there were endless arguments and people didn’t turn up to do it.🙄

I am glad that many of you have GRANDAUGHTERS taking part in DoE schemes . I get the impression that it is thought only boys will be involved in the new National service which is very biased.

There used, occasionally, to be a team of ‘young offenders’ cutting the grass in the churchyard where my grandparents are buried. They arrived in a van driven by a tough looking bloke who supervised them. I don’t know who employed him. Such community activities could be very useful. We can’t expect the arrangement, transport and supervision to be provided free of charge. The benefit should outweigh the cost.

I wonder if, in the end, they'll farm it out to one of the chosen buddies who pocket the pounds to run some cheap scheme that delivers little, like the ones to run detention centres or assess people for benefits. Another way to divert money to buddies.

If these 18 year olds decide to opt for the Armed Forces, would they be obliged then to stay for the whole 12 months or could they request their DAOR (Discharge as of Right) ie hand in their notice in the first few weeks, like other recruits?

What then?

Try the Fire Service, then the Police? Don't like those either .....

There are only 30,000 military places. One wonders where the spare training staff will come from and how much good one year will do. It may well encourage some to join up or join the TA. Will they be paid, I wonder?
The alternative being a few weekends per year… James Cleverley said Special Constables or on -call Fire Service … again, how long will the training take?
And what penalty will be levied on those who just don’t rock up?
And who would do the one year military service if the option is a few weekends a year?
It really is a load of old twaddle IMO.

Has any Tory Minister done the sums on this idiotic proposal. If all teenagers aged 18 opted for National Service that would be about 30,000 trainers. The Army has been cut by the Tories to about 70,000. If half of those are officers and NCOs it rather suggests the National Service intake would be a ridiculous burden on the regulars. Even if only half opt for being a temporary squaddie it still represents an enormous added task for a cut-down Army.

Some might be tempted by the latest promise of apprenticeships though.

They'll barely have time to go pubbing, clubbing, to gigs, socialising, with all these apprenticeships and civic duties keeping them busy.

No they aren’t all meat heads- a lot of nice kids out there!

But they don’t do they?