Sunak promises to bring back national service for 18-year-olds

Norah

Callistemon21

We relied on many 18 year olds twice before.

The average age of air crew in WW2 was 21.

I looked a bit, after the last similar thread.

"During WWII, Bomber Command, Of the 125,000 Aircrew who served, 72% were killed, seriously injured or taken Prisoner of War. More than 44% were killed whilst serving, giving the highest rate of attrition of any Allied unit. Each man was a volunteer, and their average age of death was only 23.

The equipment was not similar to now. I've no idea how the training progresses currently. I believe mum told us her brothers' training was only about a year. Brought down by flack in 1944.

Do we want people in service (again) without adequate training? No.

We're not in the same situation, thankfully.

I was just commenting on the fact that people seem to think that 18 year olds then were different from 18 year olds now.

Is that true? Do they remain children for longer now?

They do seem to be more childish/ childlike even tho they’re really tall, at least the ones I come across.

It is all seems to unpopular with all sides anyway. According to the Telegraph (can’t link through paywall), there will be no exemptions (or very few) to allow for work, uni, health etc.

The military don’t want it, because they think the cost will come from the defence budget.

The government say they will use the “levelling up money”.

As for teenagers, yes, I do think many seem to mature later than my generation did.

Whether that’s because of softer parenting/schooling, I don’t know.🤷‍♀️

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988jdxl02vo

I just heard Anne-Marie Trevelyan being interviewed on radio 4. She sounded very unconvincing and unsure what this new 'plan' means. As predicted she defended cuts in defence spending on Covid and Ukraine.
I think youngsters seem less mature now. In the past a 14 year old boy/girl often started to work and had to grow up faster.

Yes I think this idea can be firmly put to bed.

Wonder what’s next.

The others will be split between uniform jobs such as special constables, firefighters etc and the remainder carrying out work in the community.

Special constables have the same authority and powers of arrest as regular police officers.

My son was a special constable for nine years.
Out on patrol with a salaried PCSO he was the higher rank, despite not being paid.

do they remain children for longer now

That’s an interesting point. We have actually made them adults at a younger age. The age of majority used to be 21. Now it’s 18. I wonder why, when we actually do infantise young people for longer, I think that’s true. One of the annoying ways we do this, in my opinion, is not allow them to face the music when they commit crimes. We don’t allow their faces/names to be known even after conviction, and send them to juvenile centres, not to prison, but then it is argued that 16 year olds should be given the vote. No one can have it both ways, but apparently that is what’s wanted. Not responsible when stabbing someone to death, or stealing from a supermarket, or beating someone to a pulp, but responsible where voting is concerned. We are constantly told that the girl who ran off to Syria and stitched people into suicide jackets was a child, just a child and didn’t know what she was doing, but a few months later when she was 16 she would have known what she was doing and she would have been able to vote! That’s ridiculous!

My dear father was fighting on the front line when he was 18. He was horribly injured by a bullet that passed through his neck and shoulder while he was 18. But he wasn’t allowed to vote till he was 21.

My father wasn’t conscripted! He joined up voluntarily aged 17, and he fought fascism voluntarily at 18. He understood right from wrong, but we’re constantly told 16/17 year olds don’t know right from wrong and that’s why their names are withheld when they commit crimes, so how are they mature enough to vote?

Maddyone 👏🏻👏🏻 many good points there.

I suppose with any line in the sand there are going to be those on either side.

Look at a 4/5 year old child, the differences are immense in terms of what they can do.

I'm not sure what Shamima Begum has to do with this.

The " bringing back" National Service is an ill thought out sop to appease the Rule Brittania brigade.

It sounded like a good idea, as I'm all for getting young people off the streets and away from crime, but it seems half hearted to me and another thing Rishi has dreamt up in a hurry, knowing very well he won't be PM in July. Also only one in 25 young people will go in the armed forces, with a quota of 30,000, so it seems a bit pointless, and compulsory volunteering could be hard to monitor.
I would rather the armed forces received better pay to encourage new recruits, better equipment and if we are to have some form of conscription, make it a more universal system like we had in the 1950s than this very slight thing.

Im not sure what Shamima Begum has to do with this

She’s an example zakouma.
An interesting example actually, because she went to Syria to become a soldier of the caliphate. She obviously thought she was old enough to make that choice.

When you are most likely to be voted out it is easy to say anything that comes to mind. Dont need to work it out as you are sure you wont have to really do it!! In these days of stored information I think that whatever politicians say should be replayed to them if and when they win an election, and it can be seen just how much they really intended to do anyway.!

My not-so-inner cynic thinks he’s thought of a great way to ensure that 18 year olds will never vote Conservative - so his GE wipeout, and exceedingly comfortable retirement from politics, are secure.

My 18 year old granddaughter works, studies at uni, drives a car and pays for her own tickets to concerts or whatever she wants to do for her own benefit. I think she is at least as mature as I was at 18. She has been working part time since she was 15.

DiamondLily

It is all seems to unpopular with all sides anyway. According to the Telegraph (can’t link through paywall), there will be no exemptions (or very few) to allow for work, uni, health etc.

The military don’t want it, because they think the cost will come from the defence budget.

The government say they will use the “levelling up money”.

As for teenagers, yes, I do think many seem to mature later than my generation did.

Whether that’s because of softer parenting/schooling, I don’t know.🤷‍♀️

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988jdxl02vo

I think they do mature later than we did, and a lot of it is because of the independence my age group had, from what nowadays seems like a very early age. I’m sure we can all remember going out to play from dawn till dusk, without the planned ‘play dates’ we have now. I was going to the shop ( okay, only a few steps away from our houses and only for one or two things) for a neighbour when I was four. I was lighting the fire for my aunt and uncle after school when I was 10, so the house was warm when they came home, for which I got 2/6 cash and a 2/6 savings stamp! I also remember my friend and I looking after her aunt’s four children under six until she came home from work, by which time they were fed, bathed, and in pyjamas. I think we were 14, 15 at the most.
All these things were quite normal, and I’m sure that’s why we seemed more mature, certainly more ‘ capable’.

nanna8

My 18 year old granddaughter works, studies at uni, drives a car and pays for her own tickets to concerts or whatever she wants to do for her own benefit. I think she is at least as mature as I was at 18. She has been working part time since she was 15.

That’s the norm in the UK too, despite the posts about street roaming youths, that’s very much the minority.

Medical science has shown that the human brain does not fully mature until the mid 20s. We know this immature brain leads to much of the risk taking behaviour that young people, especially males, indulge in.

The youngest age you can marry has recently been raised from 16 to 18, you cannot join the army or fight for the country until you are 18. The age for a whole lot of activities is being raised.

What makes anyone think, that when we are more and more recognising the problems of expecting immature minds to make life changing decisions, that somehow or another, the right to vote, is a matter of so little significance that it can be trusted to immature and inexperienced minds.

What happens if a young adult refuses to join up? Will it be a criminal offence? Who will be charged parents or youngster?

I note that the levelling up funding is being stripped away - to pay for the national service - not that it was ever going to happen anyway, levelling up went the same way as all the other big plans like 40 hospitals.

So all you up north are no longer going to be on level with us down south - whatever that meant.

Daddima

DiamondLily

It is all seems to unpopular with all sides anyway. According to the Telegraph (can’t link through paywall), there will be no exemptions (or very few) to allow for work, uni, health etc.

The military don’t want it, because they think the cost will come from the defence budget.

The government say they will use the “levelling up money”.

As for teenagers, yes, I do think many seem to mature later than my generation did.

Whether that’s because of softer parenting/schooling, I don’t know.🤷‍♀️

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988jdxl02vo

I think they do mature later than we did, and a lot of it is because of the independence my age group had, from what nowadays seems like a very early age. I’m sure we can all remember going out to play from dawn till dusk, without the planned ‘play dates’ we have now. I was going to the shop ( okay, only a few steps away from our houses and only for one or two things) for a neighbour when I was four. I was lighting the fire for my aunt and uncle after school when I was 10, so the house was warm when they came home, for which I got 2/6 cash and a 2/6 savings stamp! I also remember my friend and I looking after her aunt’s four children under six until she came home from work, by which time they were fed, bathed, and in pyjamas. I think we were 14, 15 at the most.
All these things were quite normal, and I’m sure that’s why we seemed more mature, certainly more ‘ capable’.

Yes, same for me. My parents never thought they had to entertain me 24/7 so we went out playing a lot - often on bomb sites!😳

I was expected to earn my own pocket money, through Saturday jobs etc, from age 13.

Just got on with it, as did my peer group.

Different times.🙂

Whitewave it was made clear that no one will be forced to join up. They could choose to do the charitable service instead.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter, it’s not going to happen.

Monica makes the most important point. She says the human brain is not fully mature until around age 25. Given that’s a fact, we really shouldn’t be asking younger and younger children to vote. There are unable to consider all the options and make a mature decision.

Let’s teach all those feral youths to shoot guns and fight- will be great for their future lives. I wonder if Sunak will be encouraging his kids to join up.

vegansrock

Let’s teach all those feral youths to shoot guns and fight- will be great for their future lives. I wonder if Sunak will be encouraging his kids to join up.

Another ridiculous comment!

Honestly, I do get it that some of you despise the Armed Forces but some remarks are unconscionable.

vegansrock

Let’s teach all those feral youths to shoot guns and fight- will be great for their future lives. I wonder if Sunak will be encouraging his kids to join up.

Ridiculous!

The modern armed forces are so much more than shooting guns

maddyone

Whitewave it was made clear that no one will be forced to join up. They could choose to do the charitable service instead.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter, it’s not going to happen.

Another Gransnetter and I have already decided that everyone aged 18-19 is going to be called up to do litter-picking and recycling.
"Keep Britain Tidy"

Can't wait to see the results. 🙂