Labour to get back to an 18 week waiting list within the first term

For many of us it's already taxed.

Is Labour planning to tax the state pension?

growstuff I have never said anything about avoiding sugar. My complaint was about arificial sweeteners now being present and affecting the flavour of most soft drnks following the sugar tax.

You need to remember that because you subscribe to a particular eating style is not a good reason to castigating those who eat differently to you. There are lots of different eating patterns advocating lots, of carbohydrates, low levels of carbo hydrates, this eating pattern that eating pattern and plenty of articles to dis any of them.

Personally I subscribe to the belief that there is no such thing as an unhealthy food - and that includes sugar - only unhealthy eatng patterns and provided you have a sensible and balanced eating pattern focussed on fruit and veg, drinks with sugar in them, jam doughnuts, cream cakes, sweets and chocolate can all form part of your eating pattern, provided they are not eaten in excess.

growstuff

Mollygo
Growstuff
Whatever.
What's that supposed to mean?

Whatever is what I hear people say when they think someone is labouring a point which wasn’t part of the discussion.
^ It's true any dietician would tell you the same.^
Any dietician would tell you that something eaten or drunk occasionally is unlikely to cause much harm unless it contra-indicates with medication.
I prefer to drink something containing no added sugar or sweeteners or eat fruit with no added sugars or sweeteners or even drink pure fruit juice with no added sugars or sweeteners occasionally, rather than occasionally drink all the things that do have added sugars, artificial flavourings and the sweeteners which I find leave an unpleasant taste.

A small glass (200ml) of rhubarb and apple juice has 19.4g of sugar, which is a lot for something which is essentially empty calories.

I aim to eat no more than 70g of carbs a day. I prefer to eat more nutritious carbs.

M0nica

growstuff
The trouble is that juiced fruit is just sugar in water (with a few vitamins). I've just looked up the nutrition for Cawston Press Rhubarb and Apple, which contains 9.7g of carbs per 100ml, which to me is unacceptably high. Standard supermarket pure apple juice is 10.5g per 100ml, so the difference is minimal.

But I like the Cawston drinks, I do not like ordinary supermarket apple juice. Anyway when one is talking about products one consumes only occasionally, detailed arguments over less than 1 gramme of carbohydrate per 100ml, is very much like counting the angeles dancing on the head of a pin.

If someone was quaffing litres a day, then it would be different.

Fair enough! All I was pointing out is that it contains about the same amount of sugar as any supermarket fruit juice. If people want to avoid sugar (carbs), it should be avoided.

Mollygo

Growstuff
Whatever.

What's that supposed to mean? It's true any dietician would tell you the same.

growstuff
The trouble is that juiced fruit is just sugar in water (with a few vitamins). I've just looked up the nutrition for Cawston Press Rhubarb and Apple, which contains 9.7g of carbs per 100ml, which to me is unacceptably high. Standard supermarket pure apple juice is 10.5g per 100ml, so the difference is minimal.

But I like the Cawston drinks, I do not like ordinary supermarket apple juice. Anyway when one is talking about products one consumes only occasionally, detailed arguments over less than 1 gramme of carbohydrate per 100ml, is very much like counting the angeles dancing on the head of a pin.

If someone was quaffing litres a day, then it would be different.

Growstuff
Whatever.

Iam64

ronib, governments can influence behaviour. The obvious examples are making it impossible to smoke indoors in public spaces. Setting a drink driving limit and enforcing it. Both these public health initiatives have influenced behaviour. Most groups have designated drivers. My grandchildren are horrified if they see smoking in outdoor spaces. I grew up with loving caring smoking parents. Houses and cars full of smoke. Only irresponsible adults would subject children to that.
Schools are doing good work informing primary age children about sugar - bad, fruit and veg - good.
We have high levels of obesity, smoking, substance misuse. It will be irresponsible of the next govt if attempts aren’t made to address these public health issues

I agree with you Iam64. It's encouraging to see that younger people are tending to be less obese. Maybe the message is getting through.

Mollygo

Growstuff, there are sugars in all fruit. I like Those that have no added sugars and definitely no sweeteners.

But if people are trying to avoid sugar, "natural" fruit juices are almost just as bad as each other. At least eating the whole fruit includes fibre and people are unlikely to eat as much whole fruit as they drink fruit juice.

The body doesn't know whether sugar has been added - it's still sugar and it's best to avoid it if possible.

Growstuff, there are sugars in all fruit. I like Those that have no added sugars and definitely no sweeteners.

ronib, governments can influence behaviour. The obvious examples are making it impossible to smoke indoors in public spaces. Setting a drink driving limit and enforcing it. Both these public health initiatives have influenced behaviour. Most groups have designated drivers. My grandchildren are horrified if they see smoking in outdoor spaces. I grew up with loving caring smoking parents. Houses and cars full of smoke. Only irresponsible adults would subject children to that.
Schools are doing good work informing primary age children about sugar - bad, fruit and veg - good.
We have high levels of obesity, smoking, substance misuse. It will be irresponsible of the next govt if attempts aren’t made to address these public health issues

Mollygo

M0nica I agree about the sweeteners. They make drinks unpalatable to me too, but Cawston make drinks combined with apple- which contain no added sugar or sweeteners. (I have no connection with this firm, but they were on offer in Booths and we found we liked all varieties except this one, which I why I have a can to photograph.
Re the high nutritional standards in schools and hospitals, that could be a vote winner but providing the finance to make that possible would probably come lower down the list than more doctors and nurses and more teachers and places for children with SEND, especially the increasing flood of mental health issues.

The trouble is that juiced fruit is just sugar in water (with a few vitamins). I've just looked up the nutrition for Cawston Press Rhubarb and Apple, which contains 9.7g of carbs per 100ml, which to me is unacceptably high. Standard supermarket pure apple juice is 10.5g per 100ml, so the difference is minimal.

Mollygo I love the Cawston drinks and buy them as fruit juice. It hadn't occurred to me to look for them wheneating out/ travelling tc. I will do that now.

M0nica I agree about the sweeteners. They make drinks unpalatable to me too, but Cawston make drinks combined with apple- which contain no added sugar or sweeteners. (I have no connection with this firm, but they were on offer in Booths and we found we liked all varieties except this one, which I why I have a can to photograph.
Re the high nutritional standards in schools and hospitals, that could be a vote winner but providing the finance to make that possible would probably come lower down the list than more doctors and nurses and more teachers and places for children with SEND, especially the increasing flood of mental health issues.

No political party can change health related behaviours except by ‘punitive’ measures such as increasing tax on unhealthy foods and drinks, banning certain products, changing age eligibilities etc.

Casdon I could not disagree more. There is so much government can do to encourage people to eat well. To begin with school dinners, hospital food and in other institutional sectors they could set very high nutritional standards with requirements for fresh fruit and vegetables - and provide the fanince to make that possible. It means more kitchens in schools, hospitals etc with staff cooking fresh on site.

It means making cooking and nutrition an integral part of the school curriculum, so that children learn to cook fresh food properly and how to learn to combine food items to make impromptu meals.

Many of the punitive acts have unforeseen downsides. As a result of the sugar tax, it is now well nigh impossible to buy a soft drink that does not contain artificial sweeteners. I can taste (and hate) these sweeteners at homeopathic dilution levels and now when out, whether restaurant, service station, or pub, I am reduced to drinking water, albeit fizzy water, because all the other soft drinks on offer contain sweetener, usually aspartame.

Labours six steps sound great but how are they going to do it and where are they going to get the money? Same really goes for all parties really. Last election I has an hour discussion about this with our Green Candidate.

ronib

Casdon I don’t agree that it is irrelevant to look at other cultures to find improvements for this country. I also don’t agree that any one political party is going to change behaviours.

That’s not what I said at all ronib. We are not Japan, Japan haven’t achieved it through specific actions they have taken, it is their long-standing culture. We don’t have a healthy diet and lifestyle as part of our current culture. We can’t do what they do. However, of course we have to learn from anywhere that does things that work to change and adapt to the cultures of the UK.
No political party can change health related behaviours except by ‘punitive’ measures such as increasing tax on unhealthy foods and drinks, banning certain products, changing age eligibilities etc. the Tories have taken a number of such measures in recent years, as have Labour when they have been in power previously. What the party in power can also do though is invest in services which positively promote healthy behaviours, and there is evidence that over time that approach works.

The main thing we’d have to change to match the Japanese culture is our attitude to being told what we can and can’t do by the government.
Any chance?

Casdon I don’t agree that it is irrelevant to look at other cultures to find improvements for this country. I also don’t agree that any one political party is going to change behaviours.

If we want to reduce the costs of the health system we need to make sure that people fully understand the impact to their health and modify risky behaviours ronib. It’s irrelevant to the UK how Japan have achieved it, using them as an example just proves that with healthy lifestyles health costs are less. What we need to concentrate on is how we change behaviour patterns in the UK so that people here become more healthy. And yes, that does mean changing the culture.

Casdon yes healthy lifestyles due to a specific cultural way of living. Not down to one political ideology or party.

ronib

I don’t know much about Japanese culture although it is a popular holiday destination for some. Seems to me that it’s not the remit of any particular political party to encourage healthy living and respect for elders and maybe a more structured society? To my way of thinking, this has happened over time and is not dependent on any one political system.

That wasn’t the point I was making about Japan though ronib, it was that their health system costs are less because people live healthy lifestyles, certainly in terms of diet.

It’s a slow process Germanshepherdsmum, but yes, there is evidence that people do take notice. Smoking is an obvious example, but there are many health risks (HIV, measles, dental health, you name it) where active health promotion, particularly at local level, works.