Sovereignty not getting a mention!

Freya5

GrannyRose15

We joined in January 1973.

Yes the common market, a trading venture, not a European federalisation, that vote was in 1975.

We were told at the time very clearly and frequently that there was a political dimension to joining the EEC. So don't start that rabbit away..

GrannyRose15

We joined in January 1973.

Yes the common market, a trading venture, not a European federalisation, that vote was in 1975.

We joined in January 1973.

Wheniwasyourage

Any referendum or election result can be rethought and changed after time.

The referendum in which we voted to join what is now the EU was reversed in 2016.

Any General Election can lead to a change of government.

However, any suggestion that the referendum of 2016 could EVER be reversed is pounced on as a denial of the democratic will of the people!

We never voted to go into the EU. The vote in 1975 was to decide if we wanted to stay in the Common Market.

Granny23

But if we live in Scotland (where we voted Remain) then we have the option to leave the Union and rejoin the EU, where we would be welcomed with open arms because of all our assets e.g fisheries, wind/wave power and oil. Also because the EU would love the opportunity to get one back on the rest of the UK who had the audacity to opt out of Europe.

Do you think Spain would let you in? I doubt it. Think the Basque Country and Catalonia.

It was an unfortunate & shocking referendum result. I think a lot of people just wanted to go back to the simpler "British" days of pre-Common Market, before austerity, before the go-getting 80's & 90's where so many localities & sections of society got left behind & started to feel they didn't have a voice. That demographic was cleverly targeted by Dominic Cummings' campaign & by the gimmicky Boris buses.When put together with die-hard Eurosceptics who'd been angling to come out ever since we joined, they beat us Remainers & felt powerful again. I think it'll take a little longer before the Labour party can mention re-joining without alienating some of their key support. Closer links would be good, but we need that more than the EU does which isn't a strong bargaining position.

Oreo

Am starting to get serious dejavu about this topic on this forum, 😂😬 don’t people get tired of moaning about it?
8 years down the line apparently not.
Of course Keir Starmer won’t be doing anything about ‘trying to re join the EU’ as he knows full well how divisive that would be, so do any future PMs.
In time all will be well and problems with it sorted out.I haven’t noticed anything personally that affects me or mine.I didn’t vote for it but more people did than didn’t so let’s continue to get on with it.

Am starting to get serious dejavu about this topic on this forum, 😂😬 don’t people get tired of moaning about it?

Can I ask why a process, which is still incomplete, and which has affected a variety of people (in a variety of ways); which was the biggest constitutional change in recent years - and which, according to Mr R-M, will continue to 'evolve' over the coming decades - when being discussed, is considered to be moaning?

We still discuss the 'Thatcher' era - we look back on our past PMs' performances (both Labour and Conservative), we talk about the Iraq war, we talk about - still - Corbyn etc, etc. The past has a bearing on how we now function, and how we might in the future. Or we think it does, and so we debate it.

I still read articles about the Falklands' War, I've read books about Margaret Thatcher's government, her press secretary's 'thoughts'. My teenage grandson who emigrated as a 7 year old is fascinated with our political history (he wants to return one day and become an MP) - he's reading about John Major at the moment because he wants to get a grasp on recent British political history.

I think it was a mistake - but I am still interested in how it will eventually 'pan' out, how our cultural, constitutional and economic, life might change because of it; how the EU itself will continue to function, whether the 'dynamics' will change over time - or even if it might begin to implode, as some believe (and hope) it might - because some who voted to Leave are themselves still interested in how the EU is doing.

I'm interested in how politicians, particularly PMs, have won or lost elections - on what basis, etc. Brexit is all part and parcel of that, it is now part of our history.

Why, whenever Brexit is mentioned, do people get so defensive? And for those who are truly tired of the debate / discussion / comments- well just scroll over it because no one is compelled to enter into the discourse, either way.

The fact we are still talking about it doesn't mean we are not "getting on with it". It made our business unviable, we were somewhat upset - for a while - but we have, to coin a phrase, got over it and moved on. But we are still interested in how it is continuing to affect some aspects of our lives - can you give me a good reason why we shouldn't be interested, still? Or comment?

Am starting to get serious dejavu about this topic on this forum, 😂😬 don’t people get tired of moaning about it?
8 years down the line apparently not.
Of course Keir Starmer won’t be doing anything about ‘trying to re join the EU’ as he knows full well how divisive that would be, so do any future PMs.
In time all will be well and problems with it sorted out.I haven’t noticed anything personally that affects me or mine.I didn’t vote for it but more people did than didn’t so let’s continue to get on with it.

I used to think that Cameron was our worst ever PM until he was follwed by May (tried her best with an impossible situation) Johnson (lied about everything) and Truss (less said the better) then Sunak failing to hold the party together and possibly confining it to history.

Shouldn't the shame also be on the 28% of those eligible to vote who simply couldn't be bothered?

I don't think so. Voting of any kind in the UK never gets 100% of the voters out.

I think more shame attaches to the Leave voters who use this as a spurious excuse for inflicting an act of gross self harm on the UK. And 5 years of the most corrupt government the UK has had in my lifetime.

Shouldn't the shame be on David Cameron who called the referendum despite being warned not too, and having said he would remain at his post regardless of the outcome, resigned within hours of knowing the outcome?

Shouldn't the shame also be on the 28% of those eligible to vote who simply couldn't be bothered?

I'm no fan of Boris but as PM, as Theresa May tried to do before him, he got 'Brexit done', completing the process started by Cameron.

flappergirl

keepingquiet

I am still waiting after eight years to be told one single benefit of Brexit.

I am still waiting to hear of one international trade deal that has been made that will bring a direct benefit to these shores.

I am still flabbergasted that air time is still given to a man that was a significant driver in the worst thing that could possibly have happened to our country in generations, and people still seem to love him for promoting mass social and economic suicide.

What a complete joke of a country we've become...

Let us also not forget and he was a Remainer until he saw the light. The light being the door to number 10 of course. They all fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Agree with every word in both of these posts. Shame on all who fell for the lies of those “charmers” Johnson and let’s not forget Farage, The latter wants you to vote for him? If given the opportunity for goodness sake oust him.

Grantanow

I expect Rees-Mogg will be keen to produce a long list of Brexit benefits once he's finished work on the 18th century. Alas, I don't recall his identifying any Brexit opportunities when he was Minister for same. I must have missed that.

I think that the reason it is hard to identify the benefits is because a lot was promoted and promised which, as Rees-Mogg rightly pointed out, was not / is not, going to come to fruition for a very long time. It's rather a shame that that was not pointed out at the time, although I'm sure some figured it out for themselves.

Trade deals, etc, do not happen overnight - obviously, as each party fights for their own interests. Also, the unravelling of all the red tape was inevitably going to take some time.

I make no mention of the actual deal that was struck, we're all familiar with that. But the focus on immigration is because that was a concern for (I believe) very many Brexit voters who resented the free movement of people, goods, etc, etc. - and I'm not going to comment on that either because everyone knows what it means and has their opinion. But I believe Sunak's focus on Rwanda is because he also knows that is one issue that Brexiters feel very strongly about - and why Farage has popped up again at an opportune moment.

Obviously, some - with vested interests - have already benefitted from Brexit; those that were instrumental in promoting it, and not particularly truthful about it either.

So asking to be told about the benefits is a bit pointless. For some, just leaving the hated EU was enough - that's a benefit in itself, for them.

I don't share the view. I think it was a mistake, a confidence trick. I'm not going to blab on about why because all the arguments have been chewed over and spat out.

I do think though that, unfortunately, trying to 'go-it-alone' as a nation at this moment in our history, was the worst thing we could have done. And so those benefits, if they ever materialise, will be a very long time in proving themselves, and some of those who voted for them will no longer be around to experience them.

So in a way, it's unfair and also pointless to ask people to list the benefits. For those of us adversely affected, we can expound on the negatives, we lost our business which became simply not worth the effort, but I don't expect people to care about that, and they don't. Because everyone is looking out for their own interests.

It must be an anomaly that no one on gransnet, or at least very,very few voted for Brexit! I thought the people in the UK were bonkers at the time and so did all my friends. I’d guess at least half would have voted for it but just don’t admit it.

I expect Rees-Mogg will be keen to produce a long list of Brexit benefits once he's finished work on the 18th century. Alas, I don't recall his identifying any Brexit opportunities when he was Minister for same. I must have missed that.

MaizieD

^Anyway, they are both, in different ways, frauds.^

Oh, absolutely, Dickens. I couldn't agree with you more 😆

I always felt that Boris Johnson 'knew' that we knew that he was 'mugging' it. He always, or frequently, looked slightly amused at everything - as one might if one is 'role playing'.

Except when he was being held to account at PMQs when he could become quite tetchy, and the mask slipped.

Farage on the other hand gives the impression of someone who takes himself very seriously. And believes we should, too. I think too much 'air' time has gone to his head.

Clacton isn't Knightsbridge-and-Kensington.

No disrespect to anyone living in Clacton (I have been there) but it's a shadow of the place it once was.

The only difference is one achieved power and the other one hasn't a cat in hells chance...

Anyway, they are both, in different ways, frauds.

Oh, absolutely, Dickens. I couldn't agree with you more 😆

MaizieD

Dickens

flappergirl

keepingquiet

I am still waiting after eight years to be told one single benefit of Brexit.

I am still waiting to hear of one international trade deal that has been made that will bring a direct benefit to these shores.

I am still flabbergasted that air time is still given to a man that was a significant driver in the worst thing that could possibly have happened to our country in generations, and people still seem to love him for promoting mass social and economic suicide.

What a complete joke of a country we've become...

Let us also not forget and he was a Remainer until he saw the light. The light being the door to number 10 of course. They all fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Let us also not forget and he was a Remainer until he saw the light. The light being the door to number 10 of course.

Yes, it's on record.

Him telling us that our problems were home grown and not the fault of "Bwussels" as he called it.

Yet, he was never, as far as I am aware, picked up on that and challenged.

I don't understand how people cannot see that he was a man with an ambition - not that ambition is a bad thing... but if you forsake your principles to achieve it.

... or maybe he just speaks and writes the first thoughts that enter his head?

Either way, he's a fraud.

I'm lost off here. Who is 'he'? Is it Johnson or Farage?

I'm lost off here. Who is 'he'? Is it Johnson or Farage?

Sorry MaizieD... I followed on from the comment about "Number 10", thinking obviously about Johnson.

I know Farage has attempted (7 times I think) to be an MP - but PM not so much.

Anyway, they are both, in different ways, frauds.

Dickens

flappergirl

keepingquiet

I am still waiting after eight years to be told one single benefit of Brexit.

I am still waiting to hear of one international trade deal that has been made that will bring a direct benefit to these shores.

I am still flabbergasted that air time is still given to a man that was a significant driver in the worst thing that could possibly have happened to our country in generations, and people still seem to love him for promoting mass social and economic suicide.

What a complete joke of a country we've become...

Let us also not forget and he was a Remainer until he saw the light. The light being the door to number 10 of course. They all fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Let us also not forget and he was a Remainer until he saw the light. The light being the door to number 10 of course.

Yes, it's on record.

Him telling us that our problems were home grown and not the fault of "Bwussels" as he called it.

Yet, he was never, as far as I am aware, picked up on that and challenged.

I don't understand how people cannot see that he was a man with an ambition - not that ambition is a bad thing... but if you forsake your principles to achieve it.

... or maybe he just speaks and writes the first thoughts that enter his head?

Either way, he's a fraud.

I'm lost off here. Who is 'he'? Is it Johnson or Farage?

flappergirl

keepingquiet

I am still waiting after eight years to be told one single benefit of Brexit.

I am still waiting to hear of one international trade deal that has been made that will bring a direct benefit to these shores.

I am still flabbergasted that air time is still given to a man that was a significant driver in the worst thing that could possibly have happened to our country in generations, and people still seem to love him for promoting mass social and economic suicide.

What a complete joke of a country we've become...

Let us also not forget and he was a Remainer until he saw the light. The light being the door to number 10 of course. They all fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Let us also not forget and he was a Remainer until he saw the light. The light being the door to number 10 of course.

Yes, it's on record.

Him telling us that our problems were home grown and not the fault of "Bwussels" as he called it.

Yet, he was never, as far as I am aware, picked up on that and challenged.

I don't understand how people cannot see that he was a man with an ambition - not that ambition is a bad thing... but if you forsake your principles to achieve it.

... or maybe he just speaks and writes the first thoughts that enter his head?

Either way, he's a fraud.

The worst vanity project in British history- and there have been a few.

keepingquiet

I am still waiting after eight years to be told one single benefit of Brexit.

I am still waiting to hear of one international trade deal that has been made that will bring a direct benefit to these shores.

I am still flabbergasted that air time is still given to a man that was a significant driver in the worst thing that could possibly have happened to our country in generations, and people still seem to love him for promoting mass social and economic suicide.

What a complete joke of a country we've become...

Let us also not forget and he was a Remainer until he saw the light. The light being the door to number 10 of course. They all fell for it hook, line and sinker.

I am still waiting after eight years to be told one single benefit of Brexit.

I am still waiting to hear of one international trade deal that has been made that will bring a direct benefit to these shores.

I am still flabbergasted that air time is still given to a man that was a significant driver in the worst thing that could possibly have happened to our country in generations, and people still seem to love him for promoting mass social and economic suicide.

What a complete joke of a country we've become...

Cossy

Grantanow

The key loss engineered by Johnson and the Brexiteers was the single market which Mrs Thatcher was instrumental in putting in place. She and others saw that the free movement of goods, capital and labour would benefit the UK. Johnson, Farage and their supporters threw away that massive advantage and consigned us to life outside our most important trading partner with silly talk of Global Britain. Neither Sunak nor Starmer dare address the problem because there are still blinkered voters who can't see what they lost. Of course Corbyn contributed to Brexit because he was lukewarm and probably still stuck in the Land of Benn which bears little resemblance to real life.

The other big issue is that even if we re- join we will never get the deal we had originally and we simply cannot afford it.

I would think that by the time we are driven to applying to rejoin the UK will be so poor that we'd be receiving EU subsidy, not contributing to that of other member states as we were before.😆