Sunak V Starmer

I want to know what exactly was meant by Labour will tax your state pension.

In a letter from the permanent secretary the Treasury has denied that they had anything to do with the £2,000 'extra tax' figure and that the tories had been asked not to use it

Yes, just seen extracts from this letter on BBC news. I wonder if KS was slightly taken aback that RS still actually pushed that (forcefully) throughout the debate - saying it was from independent treasury figures when he (Sunak) knew this was not true. It was RS’s main threat throughout, and this morning it’s been shown to have been made up by the Tories.

MaizieD

petra

Granny23

"Labour must not flinch at flying the flag of St George – it is the patriotic party now”

The English Defence League couldn’t have put it better."

This quote from the show said it all for me.
If we are to have a Labour Government at Westminster, then those of us in Scotland must elect a strong SNP representation or our needs and wants will continue to be overlooked.

I wonder what Emily thought of that quote.

Oddly enough, I came across this on X/twitter this morning, it made me think about the outrage over Emily's image from Rochester.

The author is Nitin Sawhney . A British musician and composer of International repute (says Wikipedia)

I grew up watching flag-waving little Englanders parading their nationality around Rochester like Dickensian caricatures, puffing their chests out in pride over an imperial history carefully reimagined to paint over barbaric cruelty with Constable landscapes and Churchillian swagger… As if the accident of where they were born had been an achievement…

These folk were everywhere… with their arrogant smiles and entitled condescension. They were the National Front-supporting parents of school friends, avoiding eye contact if I dared visit their house via their sons, asking me transparent questions about my ethnicity and explaining how mixed race marriages never work, in case I propositioned one of their vulnerable teenage daughters…

I was taught to consider myself both lucky to be here and self-evidently inferior by virtue of my heritage.

So when I see those same superior, colluding, patronising smiles on the over-rehearsed faces of attention-seeking rabble-rousers like Farage and Tice, I have to remember…

We can’t change the past but we can make damn sure those who belong in the past don’t destroy our future…

Farage is a disease, a malicious vessel of hate… A gleeful provocateur. Everything he touches becomes a toxic wasteland of hopeless misery. He is a cancer waiting to destroy the same host over and over again.

I said this about him in a Channel 4 News interview back in 2014.

I say it again now

This should go on the Farage thread, too...

Oh ! I like him! He's so articulate and interesting and funny. Unlike that creature.

Another who didn't watch it and glad I didn't! I did listen to Farage though. What a horrible man, just a vile racist attention seeker! I live in a very safe Tory constituency so tbh I feel somewhat disenfranchised but it will be interesting to see how many votes go to Reform if they put up a candidate here.

MaizieD

Germanshepherdsmum

Starmer came across as weak and without answers. It doesn’t bode well for his future as party leader.

As Sunak was shouting lies incessantly and ignored the 'moderator' what was Starmer supposed to do, shout louder?

I don't think that's how KCs behave, is it? Or civilised people..

Political debate is not a courtroom, a barrackroom is probably closer

Sunak: 'Bold! Plan! Bold plan! Two thousand pounds! Bold! Bold! Two thousand! Plan!'

Starmer: Shuts eyes, gently shakes head, patiently waits for yapping to stop, opens mouth, and....

Sunak: 'Ah! Two thousand pounds! Bold! Plan! Bold plan!'

And so on ad infinitum.

Apart from the moment of comic relief when Sunak mentioned National Service as a solution to the problems besetting Covid affected school leavers. That raised a laugh.

£35 billion is the sum stated by Sunak, regardless if that is accurate or not public spending needs to be increased by either party to improve services.

How much do you think needs to be spent?

Germanshepherdsmum

Starmer came across as weak and without answers. It doesn’t bode well for his future as party leader.

As Sunak was shouting lies incessantly and ignored the 'moderator' what was Starmer supposed to do, shout louder?

I don't think that's how KCs behave, is it? Or civilised people..

Germanshepherdsmum

Starmer came across as weak and without answers. It doesn’t bode well for his future as party leader.

Does running a party (or a country) rely on snap answers and charisma? I don't think so, although in today's media-heavy world many people judge on that sort of thing. When important decisions have to be made I think that a more considered response is better than dealing with someone who constantly interrupts with slick comments that lack substance.

No problem, Dd. The more often it's said, the better. That's the politician's technique, isn't it?😂

LizzieDrip

Regarding the spurious extra £2000 tax burden that Sunak wouldn’t shut up about - if Labour’s going to have to find that money to maintain public service's wouldn’t the Tories have to do the same?

How would the Tories maintain our public services whilst reducing tax - which Sunak says they would do. Where would they get the money from? Or would our public services slide even further into private hands - and that’s gone well so far hasn’t it

Yes it would cost that IF the Tories intend to improve the services, I’m not convinced that they are, tax cuts seem to be the main theme, so they cannot do much to change anything.

All that is academic, Sunak is not going to be the next PM, with Farage fronting Reform even safe seats will be at risk.

Sorry Maisie - I was looking for a source and missed your post.

Starmer came across as weak and without answers. It doesn’t bode well for his future as party leader.

It's all coming out in the wash, isn't it? The civil service has disowned the figures that Sunak used to lie about Labour's tax plans, saying that they shouldn't have been used as they were false. It's just been on BBC News.

Katie590

MaizieD

Where do your figures come from, Katie590?. They sound extraordinarily like the ones the tories have been pushing.

I happen to agree that a lot more tax is needed to fix the deficiencies in the UK economy £35 billion would fit with that aim.
It amounts to around 7% of public spending, the improvements in services we are all demanding are not going to be paid for out of thin air.

How much do you think is needed to fix the NHS, Water, Police, Care services and all the other deficiencies in the UK.

No, Katie290, I asked you where you got your figures from. You haven't answered..

I tuned in towards the end and there was a lot of shouting and the presenter trying to gain order. Glad I didn't watch the whole debate.
I will read the fact checks to see the truth of the claims made.

In a letter from the permanent secretary the Treasury has denied that they had anything to do with the £2,000 'extra tax' figure and that the tories had been asked not to use it.

Of course, the tories are using £2,000 like mad and claiming it's Treasury figures..

MaizieD

Where do your figures come from, Katie590?. They sound extraordinarily like the ones the tories have been pushing.

I happen to agree that a lot more tax is needed to fix the deficiencies in the UK economy £35 billion would fit with that aim.
It amounts to around 7% of public spending, the improvements in services we are all demanding are not going to be paid for out of thin air.

How much do you think is needed to fix the NHS, Water, Police, Care services and all the other deficiencies in the UK.

They make the dreaded Nigel look good. That nasty spiteful tweet only makes him look even better.

NotSpaghetti

I forgot it was tonight - but my daughter and son in law played "word bingo" with them - and both won!...

Furlough, Pharmacist, CPS, £2000, 14 years.....would've been on my card!

petra

Granny23

"Labour must not flinch at flying the flag of St George – it is the patriotic party now”

The English Defence League couldn’t have put it better."

This quote from the show said it all for me.
If we are to have a Labour Government at Westminster, then those of us in Scotland must elect a strong SNP representation or our needs and wants will continue to be overlooked.

I wonder what Emily thought of that quote.

Oddly enough, I came across this on X/twitter this morning, it made me think about the outrage over Emily's image from Rochester.

The author is Nitin Sawhney . A British musician and composer of International repute (says Wikipedia)

I grew up watching flag-waving little Englanders parading their nationality around Rochester like Dickensian caricatures, puffing their chests out in pride over an imperial history carefully reimagined to paint over barbaric cruelty with Constable landscapes and Churchillian swagger… As if the accident of where they were born had been an achievement…

These folk were everywhere… with their arrogant smiles and entitled condescension. They were the National Front-supporting parents of school friends, avoiding eye contact if I dared visit their house via their sons, asking me transparent questions about my ethnicity and explaining how mixed race marriages never work, in case I propositioned one of their vulnerable teenage daughters…

I was taught to consider myself both lucky to be here and self-evidently inferior by virtue of my heritage.

So when I see those same superior, colluding, patronising smiles on the over-rehearsed faces of attention-seeking rabble-rousers like Farage and Tice, I have to remember…

We can’t change the past but we can make damn sure those who belong in the past don’t destroy our future…

Farage is a disease, a malicious vessel of hate… A gleeful provocateur. Everything he touches becomes a toxic wasteland of hopeless misery. He is a cancer waiting to destroy the same host over and over again.

I said this about him in a Channel 4 News interview back in 2014.

I say it again now

This should go on the Farage thread, too...

I watched 15 minutes and decided to read my murder mystery as more relaxing at 9.30pm.
I didn’t lije the format, found the moderator poor, Sunak rude, entitled and shouting ‘I have a plan, the plan is working’ is simply untrue
Starmer seemed to want to avoid shouty sound bites but if Sunak is allowed to continue shouting over him, he may have to respond in a less measured way.
The £2000 a year tax increase was just addressed on radio 4. The interviewer pointed out to the Tory spokeswoman that it’s £250 a year over 4 years.

i watched the first 30 mins and had to turn it off, the behaviour of these two grown men was ridiculous and to think one of them is going to be our pm.

I read a book and listening to the feedback, I made a good choice

Reading an article - I think in the Spectator, which argues that whole swathes of the population are absolutely determined to get rid of the Tories, and will do whatever it takes to oust them.

This means tactical voting - big time. So the winners will almost certainly be Lib Dem’s and Reform. The Tories are raging a battle on so many fronts - it seems almost as if Labour are the least of their problems.