Sunak V Starmer

Sarnia

foxie48

TBH I've got really mixed feelings about this. Many of the small specialist schools are providing a service for children who are not well catered for in the state system and good special needs teaching can be very expensive because it can only be done with lots of staff. Some children need one to one teaching and having been chair of governors in a small rural school I know only too well that the state funding for these children is inadequate and to be blunt, they can and often do affect the quality of what is on offer to the other children. I think lots of people think independent schools are for rich parents to buy advantages for their children and some are but there are lots of parents who struggle to pay fees for their children because the local state school is not meeting their needs in some way.

An excellent post. I mentioned this proposed VAT increase earlier this morning. My 11 year old granddaughter was diagnosed with dyslexia in Year 5. Her peers were learning age appropriate spellings while she was still struggling with Year 1 spellings. Her parents started on the long and arduous route for professional assessments which resulted in her getting an EHCP. It took 2 years to secure her a place at a private dyslexia specialist school while she steadily lost ground at primary where her needs could not be met. Not by any fault of the school but the system. Her fees are paid for by the local authority but others at her school pay the fees themselves, often with the help of family members. A 20% VAT increase will mean an extra £1.800 per month. Some families will be able to pay this without it causing any problems but there will be some who will have to choose between putting their child back into a state system that isn't fit for them or apply to their local authority for funding using public money. It won't generate the amount of revenue that Starmer says it will if local authorities are footing the bill for children whose parents are currently spending their own money and not relying on the taxpayer.

But that money instead of going into a private business being run for profit will be kept in the public sector. What you are in fact saying is that the few SEN children who are able to find and reach a private school with facilities for meeting their needs, are justified in taking funding out of the public sector, and paying private suppliers, for a service that should be available to all children regardless of where they live.

Sarnia

foxie48

TBH I've got really mixed feelings about this. Many of the small specialist schools are providing a service for children who are not well catered for in the state system and good special needs teaching can be very expensive because it can only be done with lots of staff. Some children need one to one teaching and having been chair of governors in a small rural school I know only too well that the state funding for these children is inadequate and to be blunt, they can and often do affect the quality of what is on offer to the other children. I think lots of people think independent schools are for rich parents to buy advantages for their children and some are but there are lots of parents who struggle to pay fees for their children because the local state school is not meeting their needs in some way.

An excellent post. I mentioned this proposed VAT increase earlier this morning. My 11 year old granddaughter was diagnosed with dyslexia in Year 5. Her peers were learning age appropriate spellings while she was still struggling with Year 1 spellings. Her parents started on the long and arduous route for professional assessments which resulted in her getting an EHCP. It took 2 years to secure her a place at a private dyslexia specialist school while she steadily lost ground at primary where her needs could not be met. Not by any fault of the school but the system. Her fees are paid for by the local authority but others at her school pay the fees themselves, often with the help of family members. A 20% VAT increase will mean an extra £1.800 per month. Some families will be able to pay this without it causing any problems but there will be some who will have to choose between putting their child back into a state system that isn't fit for them or apply to their local authority for funding using public money. It won't generate the amount of revenue that Starmer says it will if local authorities are footing the bill for children whose parents are currently spending their own money and not relying on the taxpayer.

The other option is to pay for professional help. Both my grandchildren are dyslexic - the eldest severely so. My daughter went down the professional help route as she wasn’t happy about sending them away to school.

Both now educated to post graduate level

Frankly it is the only answer that any sensible person would make because with regard to A&E, end of life, cancer, heart and paediatrics the NHS is second to none and in some cases certain treatment is only available in the NHS

This!

foxie48

TBH I've got really mixed feelings about this. Many of the small specialist schools are providing a service for children who are not well catered for in the state system and good special needs teaching can be very expensive because it can only be done with lots of staff. Some children need one to one teaching and having been chair of governors in a small rural school I know only too well that the state funding for these children is inadequate and to be blunt, they can and often do affect the quality of what is on offer to the other children. I think lots of people think independent schools are for rich parents to buy advantages for their children and some are but there are lots of parents who struggle to pay fees for their children because the local state school is not meeting their needs in some way.

An excellent post. I mentioned this proposed VAT increase earlier this morning. My 11 year old granddaughter was diagnosed with dyslexia in Year 5. Her peers were learning age appropriate spellings while she was still struggling with Year 1 spellings. Her parents started on the long and arduous route for professional assessments which resulted in her getting an EHCP. It took 2 years to secure her a place at a private dyslexia specialist school while she steadily lost ground at primary where her needs could not be met. Not by any fault of the school but the system. Her fees are paid for by the local authority but others at her school pay the fees themselves, often with the help of family members. A 20% VAT increase will mean an extra £1.800 per month. Some families will be able to pay this without it causing any problems but there will be some who will have to choose between putting their child back into a state system that isn't fit for them or apply to their local authority for funding using public money. It won't generate the amount of revenue that Starmer says it will if local authorities are footing the bill for children whose parents are currently spending their own money and not relying on the taxpayer.

ronib

Wwm2 what did Starmer say then?

He was asked this question in the first tv debate. Sunak will pay for private healthcare to save a relative’s life and Starmer won’t.
Outrageous.

Sigh

This is my last reply.

You are entirely missing the point.

What he is saying is that if he becomes prime minister, and managing the NHS queues it would be morally wrong for him to jump the queue. It is a philosophical position. You might not agree nor like it but it is what it is. He is the same about private education.

Frankly it is the only answer that any sensible person would make because with regard to A&E, end of life, cancer, heart and paediatrics the NHS is second to none and in some cases certain treatment is only available in the NHS.

He isn’t preventing you from using either nor anyone else for that matter.

I think this has now been flogged to death so I’m over and out with regard to this subject.

Whitewavemark2

ronib

Likewise MaizieD
You may be aware that Starmer has made some very dubious statements about private health and using it to keep his own parents alive.
Basically he would prefer his relatives to die rather than use private healthcare! Strange guy.

You are beginning to sound like Trump.

Starmer made no such claims.

What I'm more aware of, ronib is that you sometimes appear to be making it up as you write.

I still don't know WTF your initial response to me was about.

Oh, sorry, I had to reboot my laptop and in the process lost the post I was responding to, which was MisAdventure's at 10.42

It did badly in 2017, the issue on which it failed was safeguarding.

Since then it has been judged 'good' in subsequent inspections

reports.ofsted.gov.uk/provider/27/121251

People claiming it to be a failing school are being very selective in their choice of evidence.

However, if it is failing to attract enough pupils to make it a viable business it is an historic failing and not one to be blamed on a future government's policies.

The average, or perhaps below average, number of SEN pupils it attracts could be due to a number of factors, including the possibility of improved SEN provision in the local state schools. I certainly wouldn't argue that it shouldn't be allowed to close solely on the strength of its SEN provision.

Question was - if you had loved ones on a long waiting list for
surgery?

No mention of death

TBH I've got really mixed feelings about this. Many of the small specialist schools are providing a service for children who are not well catered for in the state system and good special needs teaching can be very expensive because it can only be done with lots of staff. Some children need one to one teaching and having been chair of governors in a small rural school I know only too well that the state funding for these children is inadequate and to be blunt, they can and often do affect the quality of what is on offer to the other children. I think lots of people think independent schools are for rich parents to buy advantages for their children and some are but there are lots of parents who struggle to pay fees for their children because the local state school is not meeting their needs in some way.

Wwm2 what did Starmer say then?

He was asked this question in the first tv debate. Sunak will pay for private healthcare to save a relative’s life and Starmer won’t.
Outrageous.

This school had capacity for 150 pupils, but only had 56 on roll in 2023 when it was inspected. I suspect not being able to fill the places is the reason it's closing.

You're right Joseann.
I stand corrected, it was the previous inspection, and they made improvements since then.

ronib

Likewise MaizieD
You may be aware that Starmer has made some very dubious statements about private health and using it to keep his own parents alive.
Basically he would prefer his relatives to die rather than use private healthcare! Strange guy.

You are beginning to sound like Trump.

Starmer made no such claims.

I watched him on I'm a celebrity and he spoke a lot of sense and I for one am voting for him.

Brilliant Dingleberry - you go for it

Do you live in the Clacton constituency, Dingleberry?

Likewise MaizieD
You may be aware that Starmer has made some very dubious statements about private health and using it to keep his own parents alive.
Basically he would prefer his relatives to die rather than use private healthcare! Strange guy.

A number of state schools now have attached special units, where pupils can integrate when appropriate, but also have specialist facilities, such as therapy rooms. I think they should be encouraged because provision is currently very patchy

Yes Growstuff, I’m sure the extra money allocated to state schools for extra staff & resources will enable this to happen.

Scrap Sunak and the other idiot and let Nigel Farage be Prime Minister, we need a straight talking person who has always stood up for Great Britain. I watched him on I'm a celebrity and he spoke a lot of sense and I for one am voting for him.

I wouldn't have got out if bed to run such a school for £100k and that was in 1990s. Certainly not viable these days.

Small independent schools have been struggling for numbers for years. Two have closed in my area. One of them closed about five years ago, so had absolutely nothing to do with the threat of a Labour government.

In my opinion, it was a huge mistake to close special schools without thinking through the consequences. A number of state schools now have attached special units, where pupils can integrate when appropriate, but also have specialist facilities, such as therapy rooms. I think they should be encouraged because provision is currently very patchy.

You never answered my question. A private school is a business enterprise should the government be propping up failing business by giving them tax breaks even if they are described as "charitable status"?

Germanshepherdsmum

Almost a third of the pupils have special needs Glorianny. The government isn’t propping up independent schools. They have charitable status which Labour seeks to remove - at the expense of the children. Pure ideology.

Even if you add up the figures GSM 6.6% +15% =21.6%. That's less than a quarter nowhere near a third. Here's the figures
www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/121251/downham-preparatory-school-and-montessori-nursery/absence-and-pupil-population

Maybe that's why the school is doing badly. Can't manage simple figures!!!

^I've just looked at the figures for this school. It is running hugely under capacity- 106 pupils with space for 150 and only 6.6% of the pupils have an SEN health and care plan and 15% have special needs help. That isn't a large proportion.
If the head could fill her school there wouldn't be financial problems^

That’s interesting isn’t it Glorianny. People should remember that private schools are businesses and, if not run effectively, will go out of business - like any other business. Perhaps the trashing of the economy by the Conservative government has also contributed to the falling numbers at this school because their parents could no longer afford the fees.

I’m sure all the children will be warmly welcomed at local state schools

MissAdventure

It did badly in its last inspection, apparently.

I can't imagine parents being keen to pay for their children to go there.

Are you sure? It has a "Good" rating at the latest inspection from what I see?