Sunak V Starmer

I once taught in an inner city school where out of a class of 27 15 of the children had special needs. That is they already had what was then a Statement of Special Needs or they were on the way to getting one. That's over 50%. That's a large proportion.

Almost a third of the pupils have special needs Glorianny. The government isn’t propping up independent schools. They have charitable status which Labour seeks to remove - at the expense of the children. Pure ideology.

It did badly in its last inspection, apparently.

I can't imagine parents being keen to pay for their children to go there.

Germanshepherdsmum

A private school in my county, which has a large proportion of SEN pupils, is having to close because of the intention to charge VAT on fees and full business rates. Lord knows how these children will find suitable places in the state sector or how they will be affected by the disruption. It is shameful, as Sarnia says.

I've just looked at the figures for this school. It is running hugely under capacity- 106 pupils with space for 150 and only 6.6% of the pupils have an SEN health and care plan and 15% have special needs help. That isn't a large proportion.
If the head could fill her school there wouldn't be financial problems

The school in Downham Market will
a) already know how many parents have given notice to leave
b) know if there has been a drop in parents signing up for the coming years
c) have noticed a drop in visits from prospective parents
The school makes the decision accordingly.

People are already withdrawing children from independent schools

And GSM, are they managing to find state school places for their children?

Have they put plans into place to use the finance raised by these measures specifically to improve schools

Yes!

People are already withdrawing children from independent schools HPQ, based on what has been said about this very specific policy and the likelihood of a Labour government.

Casdon

Subtle change of language between ‘is having to close’ and ‘will have to close’, which means it is not closing until a formal announcement is made then? In reality the reason it is most likely already struggling, which it must be to make a pre-emptive statement, is a fall in pupil numbers which is already happening before Labour come into power. SEN pupils in private schools are often subsidised by LAs, who can no longer afford to pay for high cost placements. I know from talking to Social Services colleagues before I retired that this was already an issue then, and it can only have become more acute as budgets reduce.

You have absolutely no evidence that the school is already struggling. Given what is clear about the type of people who send their children there, and the high proportion of SEN children there, at least some of whom may be LA funded, an increase of 20% in fees is unaffordable - and as I have already said, the school would have to pay full business rates. These are the people Starmer is targeting - not wealthy, just ordinary people trying to do their best for their children and doubtless making sacrifices in order to do so. It’s a disgraceful policy, based on the politics of envy - the idea that anyone whose child attends an independent school is rich. I would dearly love to see Starmer grilled on this.

Germanshepherdsmum

A private school in my county, which has a large proportion of SEN pupils, is having to close because of the intention to charge VAT on fees and full business rates. Lord knows how these children will find suitable places in the state sector or how they will be affected by the disruption. It is shameful, as Sarnia says.

Why? It hasn't happened yet

Germanshepherdsmum

A private school in my county, which has a large proportion of SEN pupils, is having to close because of the intention to charge VAT on fees and full business rates. Lord knows how these children will find suitable places in the state sector or how they will be affected by the disruption. It is shameful, as Sarnia says.

Perhaps it will do what a failing private school I know did. Closed as a private school and opened as an Academy trust, incorporating a Local authority primary school into it, so it now serves 5-18.
Its results have rocketed and from a rather inadequate private school it has become a high achieving academy.

I thought you believed in private enterprise GSM? If a business isn't viable should the government have to prop it up? is there a difference between providing tax breaks which do this and subsidising other things?

One of the comments below the article;

took the opportunity to check out this particular school following the article in the Telegraph and it wasn’t mentioned that it’s been in financial trouble since 2018 following a poor rating by Ofstead. The Pupil numbers have halved despite improvements and she was at loggerheads with the department of education for years.

She also announced the closure of the preschool in February due to funding and rising costs. There’s several articles on this in the local press and suggest readers google it.

Personally I have no idealogical objection to private schools, if parents want to pay for different schooling it’s up to them, but if a child is SEN proper schooling should be available to all, currently the provision is woefully inadequate.

Wyllow3

I thought there was a 2 year period before implementation.

Yes. It is muted that the date is likely to be April 2026.

It won’t affect the very well off people, just another hit at those less well off, working hard to give their children what they hope is a better start and they don’t count.
Where will the children from these schools go?
Have they put plans into place to use the finance raised by these measures specifically to improve schools and build new ones where necessary to accommodate the extra children.

Thank you, Germanshepherdsmum, that's exactly the type of small school I mentioned on another thread, where fees are around £10k, (the price of a holiday), and within the reach of a fair amount of parents. These are the schools which are likely to fold.

I thought there was a 2 year period before implementation.

Subtle change of language between ‘is having to close’ and ‘will have to close’, which means it is not closing until a formal announcement is made then? In reality the reason it is most likely already struggling, which it must be to make a pre-emptive statement, is a fall in pupil numbers which is already happening before Labour come into power. SEN pupils in private schools are often subsidised by LAs, who can no longer afford to pay for high cost placements. I know from talking to Social Services colleagues before I retired that this was already an issue then, and it can only have become more acute as budgets reduce.

Here’s a story about the school Casdon. Sorry it’s from the DM - the Telegraph article is behind a paywall. It also emphasises that the fee-paying parents are ordinary people, not rich.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13486745/Private-school-one-pupils-special-needs-blames-Labours-VAT-policy-forcing-closure-headteacher-says-parents-unable-afford-fee-hike.html

Germanshepherdsmum

The school is viable now Casdon, but has announced that it will have to close if VAT is charged on fees and full business rates are charged. Reeves has made it clear that these proposals would be implemented immediately.

So it isn’t actually closing - it is just putting out alarm signals??

As someone suggested child care and education come under a different vat law.

This I think is your answer.

ronib

MaizieD

I'm happy with using private care as a stop gap while investing in restoring the NHS to health. I don't want it to become a substitute.

MaizieD I guess you have the approval of the Godfather in your own family to use private healthcare? Or perhaps he’s not standing for public office?

I don't have the slightest idea what this ridiculous post of yours is about.

The school is viable now Casdon, but has announced that it will have to close if VAT is charged on fees and full business rates are charged. Reeves has made it clear that these proposals would be implemented immediately.

Germanshepherdsmum

I don’t know growstuff, but Starmer’s plans mean the school can’t afford to remain open. There are certainly fee-paying non-SEN pupils.

Schools don’t close purely on the basis of plans of a government before it’s elected, or before timelines for changes are given - this school must be in a deep financial mire already.

Joseann

PS. I'm not sure independent schools will be able to help out with SEN pupils in the same way after the VAT increase.
Sir Kier Starmer and his aim to charge VAT on private schools is not properly thought out.
I agree, and there's an awful lot of unravelling to be done with what constitutes education, and what constitutes childcare which cannot have VAT added.

That’s why I suspect that SEN children will continue s they are

PS. I'm not sure independent schools will be able to help out with SEN pupils in the same way after the VAT increase.
Sir Kier Starmer and his aim to charge VAT on private schools is not properly thought out.
I agree, and there's an awful lot of unravelling to be done with what constitutes education, and what constitutes childcare which cannot have VAT added.